Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens

[sky121]

Enough! What he said was dead wrong! Stop defending it!

He didn't say it was right. All he said was that the Rebbe had something in mind and a reason for saying it.
We're just having a discussion.
I see you're pretty passionate about the topic but if you don't calm down no one will be able to hear you.

And just for the record I think it is a more dangerous area in some ways and I don't feel they are wrong for living there.

[Drago]

http://www.totpi.com/harav-aviner-responds-satmar-rebbe-admor-sits-bavel-sees-carcass-eretz-yisrael.html

If he's truly a statistician determing murder rates. he should move to Israel where the murder rate is lower.

But maybe he'll decide to wait till the 'zionists' save him, like they did on Kasztner's Train when they saved R. Joel Teitelbaum from the holocaust.

[yitzf]

http://www.totpi.com/harav-aviner-responds-satmar-rebbe-admor-sits-bavel-sees-carcass-eretz-yisrael.html

If he's truly a statistician determing murder rates. he should move to Israel where the murder rate is lower.

But maybe he'll decide to wait till the 'zionists' save him, like they did on Kasztner's Train when they saved R. Joel Teitelbaum from the holocaust.

His numbers are way off. He says Israel has 8 per 100,000 and France has 15 and America 25.
Actually the rate in France is 1 per 100,000 as opposed to Israel of 1.8 (The US rate is 2.6 if your white)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
and http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5


ETA: The rate in Palestine is actually 7.4, way higher than the US.
see UN study pg 129 http://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf

[Redbull3]

I'm a man prone to stats and all for calculated safe decisions but there is a difference between planning the safest life for your family and actually blaming victims. Anyone saying they were asking for it by living in a Makom sekana would probably also blame a battered wife for standing up to her husband and him killing her in response or a half naked girl getting raped. The response should never be to blame the victim, ever, even if the victim statistically raised the odds of the negative outcome ocurring. There is always someone with greater share of the blame- the actually freakin perp. My $.02.
Need to focus on blaming and defeating the true enemy here. Now to insert some of my personal philosophy these animals aren't true animals which have no free will (rambam) but indeed have free will- they can be held responsible for their actions. God didn't do this to us these monsters did.

Also while hitching is unsafe, it's probably safer than in the US. It's part of the culture there and not at all out of the norm. Kidnappings through hitching aren't exactly common there afaik. Just an anecdote but I had a friend who went to the yeshiva in gush for a few years who told me he hitched from that same spot hundreds if not thousands of times.

[AI-TRAVEL]

Do people really think that Lakewood (for example) is less safe then israel? I mean you can do all the numbers you want, I never felt threatened in my life and I am sure most people here will feel the same way. I was also in EY many many times and I was all over the country there and the closer you get to the Arabs the more unsafe you feel. Now if you consider the country being patrolled by the army normal then I hear that it's a not makom sakana but in reality needing a army 24hours a day to make sure the Arabs don't attack, to me that would seem that it's a makom sakana. Where would you rather be lost in a Arab village or jackson nj?

@menachemS- seriously take it easy. I'm not saying he's right but you don't go around saying a leading figure of a sect in klal yisroel made a mistake like its a fact. He's obviously a lot bigger then me or you, so for you or me to decide he's wrong doesn't really make sense. You can believe he's wrong bec your rabbi or sect of Judaism does but let's be clear that has nothing to do with your emotions about it and for sure not your opinions or das Torah or for that matter lack there of. Unless of course your really harav shach and that's what menachemS stands for.

[churnbabychurn]

Do people really think that Lakewood (for example) is less safe then israel? I mean you can do all the numbers you want, I never felt threatened in my life and I am sure most people here will feel the same way. I was also in EY many many times and I was all over the country there and the closer you get to the Arabs the more unsafe you feel. Now if you consider the country being patrolled by the army normal then I hear that it's a not makom sakana but in reality needing a army 24hours a day to make sure the Arabs don't attack, to me that would seem that it's a makom sakana. Where would you rather be lost in a Arab village or jackson nj?

+1
The discussion doesn't even begin to make sense.

[aygart]

I think he was referring to hitchhiking specifically.

[tzvicoco]

Do people really think that Lakewood (for example) is less safe then israel? I mean you can do all the numbers you want, I never felt threatened in my life and I am sure most people here will feel the same way. I was also in EY many many times and I was all over the country there and the closer you get to the Arabs the more unsafe you feel. Now if you consider the country being patrolled by the army normal then I hear that it's a not makom sakana but in reality needing a army 24hours a day to make sure the Arabs don't attack, to me that would seem that it's a makom sakana. Where would you rather be lost in a Arab village or jackson nj?

The fact the you feel unsafe does not make it a makom sakkanah. Just look at the numbers - it is not any less safe than the US. I guarantee that if you lived there your "feelings" would change. Would you be wary? Sure. But you're also careful any time you get into a car to drive somewhere.

[elikay]

I did not and will not read through this thread, but the little I saw has made me nauseous. Why does everyone feel the need to comment on an Odom Godol? True, we may not have the same opinions or the same hashkafas; but it is definitely wrong to feel yourself on the level to judge.

[churnbabychurn]

The fact the you feel unsafe does not make it a makom sakkanah. Just look at the numbers - it is not any less safe than the US. I guarantee that if you lived there your "feelings" would change. Would you be wary? Sure. But you're also careful any time you get into a car to drive somewhere.

Let me try to explain it this way: You are in a building that contains a ticking time bomb. You feel unsafe. I tell you you're crazy, look at the numbers, no one has ever been hurt in this building, it must be the safest place in the universe.

[MenachemS]

Do people really think that Lakewood (for example) is less safe then israel? I mean you can do all the numbers you want, I never felt threatened in my life and I am sure most people here will feel the same way. I was also in EY many many times and I was all over the country there and the closer you get to the Arabs the more unsafe you feel. Now if you consider the country being patrolled by the army normal then I hear that it's a not makom sakana but in reality needing a army 24hours a day to make sure the Arabs don't attack, to me that would seem that it's a makom sakana. Where would you rather be lost in a Arab village or jackson nj?

The green line has no relevance at all to security. Umm El Fahm is within the green line, and trust me that you'd rather be in Hevron than over there. The place that the boys were kidnapped from happens to be very safe.

By your argument, the whole Israel is unsafe to live in. Israel is surrounded by blood thirsty murderers, if the army wasn't there the whole country would be overrun. And BTW, the place that were kidnapped from does not need soldiers 24/7.

[Menachem613]

I did not and will not read through this thread, but the little I saw has made me nauseous. Why does everyone feel the need to comment on an Odom Godol? True, we may not have the same opinions or the same hashkafas; but it is definitely wrong to feel yourself on the level to judge.

Whether he's an odom Gadol is a matter of debate though he's certainly a talmid chacham. 

[churnbabychurn]

Whether he's an odom Gadol is a matter of debate though he's certainly a talmid chacham.

You agree that he is a Talmud chochom yet you disparage him at every opportunity.
היזהר בגחלתם!

[elikay]

You agree that he is a Talmud chochom yet you disparage him at every opportunity.
היזהר בגחלתם!

He doesn't discriminate he'll attack any Rabbi.

[PlatinumGuy]

Whether he's an odom Gadol is a matter of debate

+1

Nobody here would have an issue with the discussion if he wasn't the 'son-of'

Granted, my opinion in the debate would be that being a leader of community merits a gadlus.

[AI-TRAVEL]

The fact the you feel unsafe does not make it a makom sakkanah. Just look at the numbers - it is not any less safe than the US. I guarantee that if you lived there your "feelings" would change. Would you be wary? Sure. But you're also careful any time you get into a car to drive somewhere.

you forgot the rest of my argument about the army having to patrol.

The green line has no relevance at all to security. Umm El Fahm is within the green line, and trust me that you'd rather be in Hevron than over there. The place that the boys were kidnapped from happens to be very safe.

By your argument, the whole Israel is unsafe to live in. Israel is surrounded by blood thirsty murderers, if the army wasn't there the whole country would be overrun. And BTW, the place that were kidnapped from does not need soldiers 24/7.

Couldn't agree more the whole israel is unsafe. Compared to normal civilized country's. And that's the way I expect it to be when your surrounded by blood thirsty Arabs. You always have to be on alert and you question everything that happens. That's not called safe, that's called being protected by the Hashem thru the army. You take away the army and your dead. There's nothing safe about that at all. I really don't understand why this is complicated. 

[MenachemS]

you forgot the rest of my argument about the army having to patrol. Couldn't agree more the whole israel is unsafe. Compared to normal civilized country's. And that's the way I expect it to be when your surrounded by blood thirsty Arabs. You always have to be on alert and you question everything that happens. That's not called safe, that's called being protected by the Hashem thru the army. You take away the army and your dead. There's nothing safe about that at all. I really don't understand why this is complicated.

So by your argument any yid who gets killed in the whole Israel is himself responsible.

[AI-TRAVEL]

And this bs that America is unsafe. Who says it's mutar to live in downtown Detroit?

[AI-TRAVEL]

So by your argument any yid who gets killed in the whole Israel is himself responsible.

depends on each individual circumstance.

[MenachemS]

depends on each individual circumstance.

And this occurrence?