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I feel compelled to speak about a "Kol Koreh" signed by a number of Rabbis making the rounds and being published together with an alleged "translation" or "explanation" of the hebrew side.
On the Hebrew side it speaks out against the credit card application farms and their methods as I wrote in point 2 here: http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/46584

However on the English side the author writes out against buying gift cards and every other method of manufactured spend to earn miles.

I figured it was worth investigating what exactly the Rabbis signed off on.  I called and asked Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, the Rosh Yeshiva in Philadelphia, whether he agreed with the English side.  He said he never saw an English side and that it was terrible that it would imply that he was agreeing with anything that wasn't explicitly written on the Hebrew side.  And he said that it has to be corrected so that people don't get that impression.

He does not feel that "all methods of manufacturing spend for miles are abusive," and indeed if there are legal ways to do it, then people should go right ahead and earn the miles.

I also called Rav Dov Kahan, founder of Bais Din Maysharim in Lakewood.  He also did not agree that "all methods of manufactured spend are abusive" but felt that methods in which each party (the store and the credit card in the case of a gift card purchase) say that you can do so and it's not against any of their terms, would be permissible and that isn't what the Kol Koreh was targeting.

-Dan




Reply #194
Rav Kamenetsky just called me back.

He says aderaba, if people can find a way to purchase miles via stores who charge for gift cards and and they can get miles then good for them.  Nothing wrong with that kind of MS at all and he had no idea why the author would deceive him like that.

The problem he signed against was the companies opening cards for people and their methods, nothing else.


Reply #280
The only kind of MS that R' Kaminetzky said isn't "yashur" and that he was signing onto was for refundable items.

He wasn't told anything about any other kind of MS.





« Last edited by Dan on July 10, 2014, 09:49:35 PM »

Author Topic: Kol Koreh against MS  (Read 48518 times)

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Kol Koreh against MS
« on: July 04, 2014, 10:30:53 AM »
From this weeks Lakewood shopper:

Offline etech0

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2014, 10:33:59 AM »
You might have to change your username...
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline lubaby

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2014, 10:48:24 AM »
Which "individual/s" in which "certain town" do you think their referring to?
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Offline Super Speed

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2014, 10:59:35 AM »
It seems to be implying even regular people doing MS is also problematic.


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2014, 11:02:36 AM »
Which "individual/s" in which "certain town" do you think their referring to?
should we start a poll?
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2014, 11:03:13 AM »

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2014, 11:04:25 AM »
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2014, 11:06:01 AM »
we can all take a guess then.
There are multiple businesses like this in town not sure what a poll is going to do...


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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 11:14:39 AM »
From this weeks Lakewood shopper:

blah. blah. blah.

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2014, 11:20:47 AM »
It seems to be implying even regular people doing MS is also problematic.

That implication would be based on an incomplete or incorrect understanding of the practice, as indicated by the article's association of the term with the techniques of refundable tickets and straight out fraud.
I remember when a coke was a nickel, and you could buy VRs in OD.

Offline Dan

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2014, 11:24:09 AM »
Exactly, mixing in refundables, fraud, etc with real MS is telling.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2014, 11:26:33 AM »
would buying GC's to cash out using various techniques be considered real MS?
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2014, 11:32:30 AM »
would buying GC's to cash out using various techniques be considered real MS?
nope. thats just money laundering :)

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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2014, 11:41:16 AM »
Exactly, mixing in refundables, fraud, etc with real MS is telling.
Fraud?


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Re: Kol Koreh against MS
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2014, 12:12:27 PM »
IMHO if its within the terms and conditions of the company what's the issue?