Shlomo Yehuda Rechnitz Article

[Achas Veachas]

And now even The Onion weighs in...

[Baruch]

Why are we having a discussion about if Kollel is the right mehalach? When everyone who's in Kollel is following what their Gedolim hold. The Litvisher Gedolim were very strongly into Kollel, and against college. Having discussions and bringing proofs from Rashi being a vinter are foolish. Take that up with Rav Aharon Kotler and the Chazon Ish etc., the people learning in Kollel are following their Gedolim.

This discussion is getting silly.

[Centro]

Girls are also being picky. No need to blame everything on the male

Could be, I'm not familiar, the only info I have is from scrolling this thread.

[PlatinumGuy]

chasiddish don't have torah values?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_philosophy

'Outside of the flourishing centre of Talmudic Rabbinic Judaism in Lithuania, in the regions of the Ukraine, Poland, Hungary and Russia, the ability to access Talmudic learning had declined. Rabbinic Judaism valued such learning as the main path to spirituality, so the outlying communities were disenfranchised from the consolations of Jewish life.


The Baal Shem Tov, and his successors, offered the masses a new approach to Judaism'

doesn't the torah command a father to teach his son a trade so he should be able to work and support his wife the home-maker?

You're misquoting the Mishna. The Mishna isn't coming to say that one shouldn't learn, rather that for someone who will not be learning, it is the father's responsibility to teach I'm a trade as opposed to neglecting him.
The Mishna is saying not to neglect, not not to learn torah.

I hope you have Jewish kids

Me too! But more than I hope I have Jewish kids, I hope I don't have non Jewish kids.

Why should I be them חושד?

You used the assumption that they didn't date, to prove that it's a bad thing. I can just as well use the assumption that they did, to prove that it's a good thing. 

No one suggested to wipe the torah, we're talking about not learning the entire day,
If you look back in history there was never a kollel system or any of the kind, then norm was to get married at 18-20 and then they would get a job (if they haven't had one by then...) and they had a sheer in the morning and at night,
אחד מאלף who really meant it didn't go to work and would just sit in shul/Yeshiva and continue his learnings, very few were in this category..

My point wasn't that chassidim believe in abolishing torah. My point that the differentiator between chaissidim and yeshivahs community is the value placed on torah learning.

If you look back in history there was never a kollel system or any of the kind, then norm was to get married at 18-20 and then they would get a job (if they haven't had one by then...) and they had a sheer in the morning and at night,

The gemara does discuss generations were everybody was learning. The average marriage age at the litvish yeshivas before the war was over 30.

[Drago]

1) That's like saying that since surgeries have a 10% failure rate, if you take 10 you're bound to fail 1. It ignores the fact that it depends on human talent and a good doctor will be above average.

Hence the fact that more young women get divorced than older ones, doesn't mean the mature younger ones are any worse off.

But when you push an entire age bracket into the 'parsha' at an earlier age, than the immature ones are going to be included with them all. Ppl aren't trying to limit the shidduchim to the 'mature' ones only. And in all honestly, how many 19 year olds are truly mature?

[PlatinumGuy]

And in all honestly, how many 19 year olds are truly mature?

Plenty, evidenced by the rate of successful marriages.

But when you push an entire age bracket into the 'parsha' at an earlier age

I didn't suggest that.

 I merely claimed it wasn't an extreme lack of ruchniyus for guys to want to marry more attractive girls.

[Drago]

Plenty, evidenced by the rate of successful marriages. I didn't suggest that.

No one denies that young ppl can have successful marriages. But no can can deny that in the general population, younger people have a much higher divorce rate as well. (I will admit that I haven't yet seen statistics on the frum community.)

And while you're not personally pushing 19 year olds to get married, the general system is, and that's the point.

And regarding the bochrim's preference's, could it be b/c it's easier to be the dominant spouse when she's a teen, rather than your age or older?

[Baruch]

Plenty, evidenced by the rate of successful marriages. I didn't suggest that.

 I merely claimed it wasn't an extreme lack of ruchniyus for guys to want to marry more attractive girls.

All things being equal, I don't think there would be a Rav in the world who would advise marrying a less attractive girl.

(Maybe Rabbi Helbrands  )

[PlatinumGuy]

And regarding the bochrim's preference's, could it be b/c it's easier to be the dominant spouse when she's a teen, rather than your age or older?

And if it is, is that a chisron in ruchniyus?

Look at the poor guy here who had to cancel his Thailand trip 

[PlatinumGuy]

All things being equal, I don't think there would be a Rav in the world who would advise marrying a less attractive girl.

So we can agree to disagree with this statement:

a 24 year old bachur would rather have some young fresh flesh, close to the illegal age, rather than someone 24? Wouldn't that be considered a real ruchniyus issue that should be worked on, rather than catered to?

[MarkS]

No one said to marry someone who is 89 and wrinkly. We're talking about the physical appearance of a 19 year old vs a 24 year old.

[Drago]

And if it is, is that a chisron in ruchniyus?

Look at the poor guy here who had to cancel his Thailand trip 

It's a lack of knowing how a healthy family relationship works.

And in his case, he clearly went 180 degrees in the other direction. 

So we can agree to disagree with this statement:

-Fascinating. I never equated 4 years younger as being light years more beautiful. Cute perhaps, hot maybe, but beautiful...? Then again, I can imagine 23 year old bachrim who have been in yeshiva for 15 years being drawn to what they missed out during those long years spent shteiging.

Maybe I'm simply an old geezer and don't understand the younger MySpacing tweeting generation.

All things being equal, I don't think there would be a Rav in the world who would advise marrying a less attractive girl.

(Maybe Rabbi Helbrands  )

In the chassidish world with matchmaking, do looks often sink a shidduch?

[PlatinumGuy]

Then again, I can imagine 23 year old bachrim who have been in yeshiva for 15 years being drawn to what they missed out during those long years spent shteiging.

Ewww

None of what you're saying supports your original claim that its a ruchniyus issue

[Mordyk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_philosophy

'Outside of the flourishing centre of Talmudic Rabbinic Judaism in Lithuania, in the regions of the Ukraine, Poland, Hungary and Russia, the ability to access Talmudic learning had declined. Rabbinic Judaism valued such learning as the main path to spirituality, so the outlying communities were disenfranchised from the consolations of Jewish life.

and your quoting Wikipedia that can be edited by anyone?

[PlatinumGuy]

and your quoting Wikipedia that can be edited by anyone?

Yes. Do you disagree with the Wikipeida comment?

[Mordyk]

Yes. Do you disagree with the Wikipeida comment?

no i don't. because i know many chasidish people. many of them are really talmidei chachomim. and most of those that i am referring to went to work shortly after their wedding. they have the same respect for the torah , yet they respect their responsibilities as well.

[Baruch]

In the chassidish world with matchmaking, do looks often sink a shidduch?

Is it possible that if a guy marries someone who he finds attractive he has an easier time with Shemiras Einayim?

[Drago]

Ewww

None of what you're saying supports your original claim that its a ruchniyus issue

I dunno. If someone were choosing a spouse b/c she's 'hot', and not b/c she's the best potential match for a long loving relationship (which includes many factors, including attractivness, maturity, compatibility, etc) , that would point to a some sort of failing.

Call it ruchniyus or s/t else if you'd like.

[Yitz]

Is it possible that if a guy marries someone who he finds attractive he has an easier time with Shemiras Einayim?

It should be helpful

[Drago]

Is it possible that if a guy marries someone who he finds attractive he has an easier time with Shemiras Einayim?

That's a good question, and my personal opinion would be that it would help in the short term, but not necessarily in the long term. This would, in large part, depend on his personality type.