Shlomo Yehuda Rechnitz Article

[PlatinumGuy]

(-forgot how to daven like a mench etc)

In my eye, you just lost all credibilty. If davening is your priority go to seminary

[damaxer91]

Hope you're not serious
+1
Agreed, but that's a very tough call to make A plan doesn't have to be 100%. Most people taking student loans believe they will earn enough to repay them.

I am very serious

Think about the many other things people borrow money for

I'm not talking about borrowing money you can't afford to eventually pay back

Why should yenem's daughter not be able to marry a top learning guy because her father doesn't have a fat savings account? Is it better to spend the money to finance an Odyssey?

[churnbabychurn]

In my eye, you just lost all credibilty. If davening is your priority go to seminary

wow.
So did you in mine!

[aygart]

Well it definitely needs a peshat! Do you understand it?

BTW during my time in EY, ~ 40% of my group had a terrible yerida, 20% a normal yerida (-forgot how to daven like a mench etc), 20% status quo, and 20% for some strange reason, shteiged.
This is just my experience...

I had an opposite experience.

In my eye, you just lost all credibilty. If davening is your priority go to seminary

Forgetting to daven like a mench is not a yiridah?

[churnbabychurn]

I had an opposite experience.Forgetting to daven like a mench is not a yiridah?

well your 20% should have had the option to marry..

[PlatinumGuy]

I'm not talking about borrowing money you can't afford to eventually pay back

We're on the same page. And for G-ds sake let's stop calling Odyssesy and Acura luxury cars

wow.
So did you in mine!

I know…

Forgetting to daven like a mench is not a yiridah?

Would've been better had he gone to College? People grow up and change…

Me and my rebeim would say that even a marginal increase in his ability to learn properly was worth that yiridiah, I'm sure cbc would disagree.

[sky121]

There is obviously going to be a difference in opinion here but..
      I believe learning torah is a great thing. I just don't believe half the boys sitting in kollel should be there. There are too many boys either wasting their time or just not developing themselves as they personally need to be with their own kochos and abilities. It's just a shame.   It's all the boys that shouldn't be sitting in kollel that give kollel a bad name in recent years.  And teaching boys that kollel is everything and everything else is a waste of time doesn't help promote good earners or good middos towards others for that matter. Fathers and husbands are supposed to take care of their families.

 Every once in a while I'll meet a guy in kollel who makes me proud to support him. It doesn't happen nearly as often as it should unfortunately.

[PlatinumGuy]

There is obviously going to be a difference in opinion here but..
      I believe learning torah is a great thing. I just don't believe half the boys sitting in kollel should be there. There are too many boys either wasting their time or just not developing themselves as they personally need to be with their own kochos and abilities. It's just a shame.   It's all the boys that shouldn't be sitting in kollel that give kollel a bad name in recent years.  And teaching boys that kollel is everything and everything else is a waste of time doesn't help promote good earners or good middos towards others for that matter. Fathers and husbands are supposed to take care of their families.

 Every once in a while I'll meet a guy in kollel who makes me proud to support him. It doesn't happen nearly as often as it should unfortunately.

But who's to say that learning 20% of the day isn't something to be proud of supporting

[aygart]

Like usual, any conversation about shidduchim has to devolve into whether or not suppoting children in Kollel is virtuous. Those who are against Kollel will not be convinced (until their son goes and does it, but of course he will be "different and worth it") and neither will those who are for Kollel. The question is whether it has an effect on shidduchim. That question is separate from the first.

[churnbabychurn]

There is obviously going to be a difference in opinion here but..
      I believe learning torah is a great thing. I just don't believe half the boys sitting in kollel should be there. There are too many boys either wasting their time or just not developing themselves as they personally need to be with their own kochos and abilities. It's just a shame.   It's all the boys that shouldn't be sitting in kollel that give kollel a bad name in recent years.  And teaching boys that kollel is everything and everything else is a waste of time doesn't help promote good earners or good middos towards others for that matter. Fathers and husbands are supposed to take care of their families.

 Every once in a while I'll meet a guy in kollel who makes me proud to support him. It doesn't happen nearly as often as it should unfortunately.

At least in Lakewood, those who are not into learning seriously for the most part leave after 3-4 years. You have nothing to be concerned about. In BMG you don't even get on the payroll for the first couple of years. The ones who stay longer are definitely doing holy work...

[PlatinumGuy]

I might be biased but I know plenty of really wealthy girls (not Acura drivers who are having a really difficult time. Like everything in life money makes it easier but I'm not sure $$$ are the core of the problem.

[Ephraimh]

In my eye, you just lost all credibilty. If davening is your priority go to seminary

Wow. That's what we call 'PGGM' and only PGGM. Not the Jewish way at all. Wow again.

[sky121]

But who's to say that learning 20% of the day isn't something to be proud of supporting

Then learn 20% of the day. Don't sit around 80% of the day wasting time.

You know how proud it makes me to meet a  ben torah who works?


That's the whole other side to this kollel life we've promoted. We have guys who aren't learning all day made to feel like they are less when isn't the whole point to bring G-d into your life at all times in all ways whether learning or working?

My plumber is one of the most learned people I've met.  He constantly has words of Torah coming out of his mouth and does so much chessed in the community. I don't know that he opens a sefer more than once a week. But it's honest.  His torah learning. His bringing Torah into his life everyday. It's honest.

 
Also, we've started raising houses where women need to go work and no one is around to raise the kids. Yes, some do it better than others but you can't compare to a house where a mother is home and has time to make dinner and is waiting for her kids to get off the bus.

[sky121]

At least in Lakewood, those who are not into learning seriously for the most part leave after 3-4 years. You have nothing to be concerned about. In BMG you don't even get on the payroll for the first couple of years. The ones who stay longer are definitely doing holy work...

 I don't know about that. Folks get help. It's easy to just sit around learning. Especially for guys who have nothing else in their hands to work with and don't know where to start.

[aygart]

As it happens, my father once met a frum person with a PhD in demographics and asked him what he felt about the "shidduch crisis". His answer was enlightening.

• He was not convinced that a crisis exists. He said that there is definitely anecdotal evidence that there is an issue, but even if there is it may not be the extent people make it to be. He emphasized that one can only count "unwilling singles" which would not include certain types of "pickiness".
• He felt that there was a decent chance that the age gap can be a contributing factor, but that there are various reasons why that would not be the case as well. There are many factors which can counteract this gap.
• Just that it may be a factor does not mean that it is a primary cause. There can be numerous other causes which can be having more of an effect.
• Even if it is a primary factor he did not feel that it can be responsible for a crisis the way it is being made out to be.

He felt that the only way to figure it out would be to properly do a demographic study with an open mind. Such a study may confirm the current suspicions, but also may point things in a totally different direction. Demographics is a science like any other. It behooves those who we would expect to be responsible not to blindly follow some boich svara and throw cash at it. Anyone who invests a large sum into any venture will not be convinced by the seemingly simple argument about the age gap to invest without doing a proper demographic study. The potential loss of torah study caused by boys marrying earlier certainly merits the same due diligence.

Again, I am not saying that there is or isn't a crisis, or that it is or isn't caused by the age gap. I am saying that the issue should be approached with no less seriousness than a large investment and proper due diligence should be done to insure that our efforts produce the desired outcome and don't hider it (al pi teva of course)

[sky121]

I might be biased but I know plenty of really wealthy girls (not Acura drivers who are having a really difficult time. Like everything in life money makes it easier but I'm not sure $$$ are the core of the problem.

I agree. Money may help you get married but not necessarily a happy marriage.
Though it can help keep things a bit happier WHILE you're married ..to a certain extent.

[MC]

I might be biased but I know plenty of really wealthy girls (not Acura drivers who are having a really difficult time. Like everything in life money makes it easier but I'm not sure $$$ are the core of the problem.

I agree a million fold. I know a ton of girls in that position. There's no way it can be the primary factor.

[PlatinumGuy]

isn't the whole point to bring G-d into your life at all times in all ways whether learning or working?

No, it's not. Where did you get this idea from? There's a separate mitzvah of והגית בו

Wow. That's what we call 'PGGM' and only PGGM. Not the Jewish way at all. Wow again.

You can argue about the details (of course nobody bzman hazeh shouldn't daven at all), but nobody disagrees that the ultimate 'Jewish way' is
ואם הייתה תורתו אומנותו ואינו עושה מלאכה כלל והיה עוסק בתורה בשעת תפלתו אינו פוסק, שמצות תלמוד תורה גדולה ממצות תפילה (Rambam)

"ר' ירמיה הוה יתיב קמיה דר' זירא, והוו עסקי בשמעתתא, נגה לצלויי והוה מסרהב ר' ירמיה. קרי עליה ר' זירא "מסיר אזנו משמוע תורה גם תפלתו תועבה"

[PraiseCanada]

Like usual, any conversation about shidduchim has to devolve into whether or not suppoting children in Kollel is virtuous. Those who are against Kollel will not be convinced (until their son goes and does it, but of course he will be "different and worth it") and neither will those who are for Kollel. The question is whether it has an effect on shidduchim. That question is separate from the first.

Kollel is part of the lifecycle of the people who are affected by the Shiduch crisis. It's as fair game as any other aspect of life. However it stands out more because it occurs at a critical time in terms of Shiduchim. Also, learning in Kollel generally impedes one's ability to earn a living, etc.
I don't think it's a matter of for/against Kollel. I'm for everyone doing what is right for them. But if you pick the wrong thing, don't go yelling about a crisis (as if it's some natural disaster). Fix your ways and stop being stupid

[Ephraimh]

No, it's not. Where did you get this idea from? There's a separate mitzvah of והגית בוYou can argue about the details (of course nobody bzman hazeh shouldn't daven at all), but nobody disagrees that the ultimate 'Jewish way' is
ואם הייתה תורתו אומנותו ואינו עושה מלאכה כלל והיה עוסק בתורה בשעת תפלתו אינו פוסק, שמצות תלמוד תורה גדולה ממצות תפילה (Rambam)

"ר' ירמיה הוה יתיב קמיה דר' זירא, והוו עסקי בשמעתתא, נגה לצלויי והוה מסרהב ר' ירמיה. קרי עליה ר' זירא "מסיר אזנו משמוע תורה גם תפלתו תועבה"

I believe the people of his group who "stopped davenng like a Mentch", didn't do so because of their obsession with Torah..