Author Topic: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak  (Read 41418 times)

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8388
  • Total likes: 74
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2014, 03:46:18 AM »
what should the difference be. All of their entire הנהגה of life is from the same school of thought. There is a lot of pride that comes with באבוב. Any deviation of  the original השקפה would be be precived as unacceptable.
So this is simply a power/money catfight? I was trying to be optimistic and find a more ruchnius based answer.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Offline Freddie

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 3088
  • Total likes: 308
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Pittsburgh
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2014, 04:23:16 AM »
So this is simply a power/money catfight? I was trying to be optimistic and find a more ruchnius based answer.

Anyone else have any ideas?
+1
Strange how the previous poster took immediate offense to such a notion though.

Offline Super Speed

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 4849
  • Total likes: 50
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle, Avis First, National Executive Elite, Sixt Platinum.
Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2014, 08:14:02 AM »
From what it sounds like, it's a fight who can lead the Klal in the best way, based on the same hashkafos. So it's a Machlokes leshem shamayim.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 08:33:21 AM by Super Speed »

Offline ad120

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 2526
  • Total likes: 104
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Monsey, NY
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2014, 08:21:07 AM »
So this is simply a power/money catfight? I was trying to be optimistic and find a more ruchnius based answer.

Anyone else have any ideas?
The way you put was disrespectful & offensive. 
Depending on which side you are on, the dispute is either to defend or take back what you believe is rightfully yours.

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8388
  • Total likes: 74
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2014, 08:38:22 AM »
From what it sounds like, it's a fight who can lead the Klal in the best way based on the same hashkafos. So it's a Machlokes leshem shamayim.
Would seem that if each side compromised and came together in a strong show of achdus, that would be a true solution l'shem shamayim.
Or they could publicize this, cause fights, take it to courts in the US and Israel, avoid BD psaks, and call that machlokes lshem shamayim.

Their choice.

The way you put was disrespectful & offensive. 
Depending on which side you are on, the dispute is either to defend or take back what you believe is rightfully yours.
I disparaged the notion that they'd be doing all of this for non-spiritual reasons, and would love to hear of good reasons. I'm trying to be dan litzad zechus.
Sometimes these splits are hashkafa based and I'd prefer that reason more so than a money-based reason.

Besides, when did chasidshe groups become these large money-pots worth fighting over (physically and legally)? Was this already a trend back in Europe, or is it relatively new?

Offline damaxer91

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 3182
  • Total likes: 64
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2014, 09:16:23 AM »
LOL at the 6.2M over 5 years.

Thats the biggest insult of all

Offline ad120

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 2526
  • Total likes: 104
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Monsey, NY
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2014, 09:19:30 AM »
When did chasidshe groups become these large money-pots worth fighting over (physically and legally)?
Was this already a trend back in Europe, or is it relatively new?
A. Ever since they started in America. 
B. Nothing is like it was in Pre War Europe.  It's 2014.

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2014, 09:21:44 AM »
A. Ever since they started in America. 
B. Nothing is like it was in Pre War Europe.  It's 2014.
There were massive splits and fights in Chasisuses even in Pre War Europe.


Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4399
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2014, 09:23:31 AM »
There were massive splits and fights in Chasisuses even in Pre War Europe.


And there were some very grand courts going back as far as the Holy Ruzhnier...

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2014, 09:23:56 AM »
Each side believes that they're the rightful yoresh. Why should they give up what is rightfully theirs?

Maybe Moshe Rabeinu should have compromised with Korach?

Even a Tzaddik doesn't have to compromose with a Ganav.

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #70 on: August 26, 2014, 09:25:01 AM »
And there were some very grand courts going back as far as the Holy Ruzhnier...
I don't understand your comment. Please elaborate.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4399
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #71 on: August 26, 2014, 09:33:37 AM »
I don't understand your comment. Please elaborate.
I was elaborating on your point in answering Drago's question.

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8388
  • Total likes: 74
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2014, 09:42:47 AM »
Each side believes that they're the rightful yoresh. Why should they give up what is rightfully theirs?

Maybe Moshe Rabeinu should have compromised with Korach?

Even a Tzaddik doesn't have to compromose with a Ganav.
So the BD now paskened what should be done, it'll be accepted?

There were massive splits and fights in Chasisuses even in Pre War Europe.
Over money? Over a title?

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #73 on: August 26, 2014, 09:48:53 AM »

Over money? Over a title?
Over the Chassidus. Which includes mony and title.

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8388
  • Total likes: 74
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2014, 11:29:17 AM »
Over the Chassidus. Which includes mony and title.
It's not primarily the teachings and haskafa passed on to the chasidim? Money and especially title would seems to be much less important.
I kinda doubt that most Courts had big buxx in their early years. (Although I could be wrong about that)

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4399
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2014, 11:53:13 AM »
It's not primarily the teachings and haskafa passed on to the chasidim? Money and especially title would seems to be much less important.
I kinda doubt that most Courts had big buxx in their early years. (Although I could be wrong about that)

I kinda doubt that most Courts had big buxx in their early years. (Although I could be wrong about that)
Not most but there were some who viewed it as a Derech in Avodas Hashem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Friedman_of_Ruzhyn

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8388
  • Total likes: 74
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #76 on: August 26, 2014, 12:26:48 PM »
Not most but there were some who viewed it as a Derech in Avodas Hashem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Friedman_of_Ruzhyn
I'm in!
:)


Offline DH Data Recovery

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4543
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 64
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #77 on: August 26, 2014, 12:50:50 PM »
Prewar Europe had some huge disputes between chassidim and Rebbes, this isn't new in any way

Offline Drago

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 8388
  • Total likes: 74
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 18
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #78 on: August 26, 2014, 01:19:38 PM »
Prewar Europe had some huge disputes between chassidim and Rebbes, this isn't new in any way
Btw chassidim and rebbe's, or btw factions?
What were they based on?

Offline DH Data Recovery

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4543
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 64
    • View Profile
Re: Bobov -- Din Torah Psak
« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2014, 01:48:49 PM »
Both. Kotzk and Peshischa had a huge fight between the Rebbes and chassidim.