Missing Bochur - Aaron Sofer (BD"E)

[elit]

Who was that?

[Crazy tools]

Who was that?

Meir Lichtenstein and yankel wenger

[wayfe]

Still unsure as to what was the cause of death?

[yuneeq]

It's not

+1
Yad Veshem is in Ein Karem or not more than a few seconds away.

[Saver2000]

Just skimmed through this thread.

Very unfortunate ending.

@cbc, the two bochurim have been in yeshiva together for a few years (dating back to before they went to israel), so. . . .

[Deal Guy]

It would seem from this story that either one of them or both of them were hiking alone without a cellphone.
Guys, when going on a hike, make sure that the group has 1 or 2 cellphones, and if 2 people are going to separate and go 2 ways, they should each have a phone.

http://www.vosizneias.com/177182/2014/08/29/jerusalem-united-hatzalah-ceo-cell-phones-a-must-for-all-students-in-israel-black-hats-and-jackets-a-no-no-on-hikes/

[sky121]

I'm glad an article like this was written.  Whenever bad things happen in the world everyone seems to respond how we have to work on ourselves etc but people seem to just skim over positive practical changes.




When a girl gets attacked and raped. We daven... But why not start to teach girls self defense ?

When a boy drowns...we repent .. but why not make sure kids can swim?

When a boy goes into a forest potentially unprepared...why not give lessons to the yeshiva kids about how to hike and what to take with you??

And I still feel we don't know the details of this situation specifically and we don't know if anything could have helped prevent what happened but so many stories happen and I don't see  practical change as often as I think I should.

[yuneeq]

I'm glad an article like this was written.  Whenever bad things happen in the world everyone seems to respond how we have to work on ourselves etc but people seem to just skim over positive practical changes.




When a girl gets attacked and raped. We daven... But why not start to teach girls self defense ?

When a boy drowns...we repent .. but why not make sure kids can swim?

When a boy goes into a forest potentially unprepared...why not give lessons to the yeshiva kids about how to hike and what to take with you??

And I still feel we don't know the details of this situation specifically and we don't know if anything could have helped prevent what happened but so many stories happen and I don't see  practical change as often as I think I should.

A few years ago, when my friend joined the same yeshiva he was told "that a Ben Torah doesn't talk on a cell phone on the street."  It's hard to claim the bochur was negligent when he wasn't allowed to use a cellphone anyways.

[sky121]

A few years ago, when my friend joined the same yeshiva he was told "that a Ben Torah doesn't talk on a cell phone on the street."  It's hard to claim the bochur was negligent when he wasn't allowed to use a cellphone anyways.

Again, not talking about this specific situation.  But there are ways to go hiking and be smart. And Jewish people should always try their best to be safe. Proper attire, a phone etc.  A phone wouldn't have necessarily even helped in this situation.

So many stories happen all the time, just many don't result in death.

[Baruch]

Before cell phones were invented, people went hiking without them.

If the R"Y holds that cell phones are spiritually destructive for Bachurim, then they should go hiking without them too.

In the end Hashem is the Meimis and Mechayeh. He will not kill you for avoiding a spiritually destructive device.


I personally used to keep  my cell phone on in Bais Medrash during seder. It definitely shtered my learning. My rationalization was that my wife may need to get a hold of me in an emergency. A chashuve yid explained to me, that b4 cell phones people used to leave their wives and go to bais medrash. Being that having your cell phone on shters your learning, shut it, and Hashem won't make something happen that wouldn't have happened anyways because you  wanted to be mechazek your learning. I'm proud to say after that conversation my cell phone is totally turned off during seder.   

[sky121]

What about proper attire and some basic survival skills? When's the last time a Yeshiva taught you that ? 

[menachem_m]

I'm glad an article like this was written.  Whenever bad things happen in the world everyone seems to respond how we have to work on ourselves etc but people seem to just skim over positive practical changes.




When a girl gets attacked and raped. We daven... But why not start to teach girls self defense ?

When a boy drowns...we repent .. but why not make sure kids can swim?

When a boy goes into a forest potentially unprepared...why not give lessons to the yeshiva kids about how to hike and what to take with you??

And I still feel we don't know the details of this situation specifically and we don't know if anything could have helped prevent what happened but so many stories happen and I don't see  practical change as often as I think I should.

+100

Unfortunately the truth is, if anyone G-d forbid dares to make a positive, sensible suggestion, like keeping hydrated, not leaving your hiking partner alone, actually installing mandatory window bars, watching your kids by the pool, etc. etc., than they get viciously attacked for being "insensitive" and "blaming the victim".

[Myccrabbi]

What about proper attire and some basic survival skills? When's the last time a Yeshiva taught you that ?

You know, if this would be your friend or family/chavrusa I'm sure you wouldn't say this crap.(I happen to be 2 out of them) but since you are not so I guess you could just say what you want.

[MeirS]

Why is everyone blaming the Yeshiva for not allowing cell phones? If your religious beliefs (or those of your RY) are not to use a cell phone, great! Be a good man and don't. Just don't go hiking. No one is forcing you to go hiking.

If you're religion is against helmets, don't say "I'll walk into the construction site and G-D will protect me because I'm listening to him". DON'T GO TO THE CONSTRUCTION SITE! IT'S DANGEROUS!!

Religion is full of restrictions. Be happy that you have a more meaningful life than others.

[chaimmayer]

What about proper attire and some basic survival skills? When's the last time a Yeshiva taught you that ?

When I was in yeshiva (ToMo) the mashgiach spoke to us while we broke the fast on מוצאי יום כיפור about being safe during בין הזמנים.  I believe this included not getting dehydrated.

[sky121]

You know, if this would be your friend or family/chavrusa I'm sure you wouldn't say this crap.(I happen to be 2 out of them) but since you are not so I guess you could just say what you want.

I hope you don't think safety is unimportant and "crap". I said I wasn't talking about this specific situation. I don't know that any of these things would have helped. Bad things happen to experienced hikers all the time as well. And I'm sorry this hits you close to home. I can understand how the hurt could cause you anger when you see others talking about anything besides the young man himself. I'm sorry for your loss. I meant no disrespect to the deceased or others mourning him. That being said the rest of the world while and after mourning should look to work on themselves in practical ways (as well as spiritual) so we can avoid loss again in the future.


Your reply to my post failed to answer the question about why basic safety isn't enforced in Yeshivos.


Then again if you knew this boy personally  then this may not be the right time for you to be part of this conversation.  Understandable.

Again, I am very sorry for your loss.
I too mourn this young boy.
You'll excuse my strong passion on the subject, I just don't want to lose another one.

[Achas Veachas]

+100

Unfortunately the truth is, if anyone G-d forbid dares to make a positive, sensible suggestion, like keeping hydrated, not leaving your hiking partner alone, actually installing mandatory window bars, watching your kids by the pool, etc. etc., than they get viciously attacked for being "insensitive" and "blaming the victim".

A person from Crown Heights who had a break-in at his house wrote to the Rebbe asking what he should do and offered a "suggestion" "Maybe I should check my Mezuzos?" The Rebbe answered Check the bars in your windows first...

[Baruch]

Why is everyone blaming the Yeshiva for not allowing cell phones? If your religious beliefs (or those of your RY) are not to use a cell phone, great! Be a good man and don't. Just don't go hiking. No one is forcing you to go hiking.

If you're religion is against helmets, don't say "I'll walk into the construction site and G-D will protect me because I'm listening to him". DON'T GO TO THE CONSTRUCTION SITE! IT'S DANGEROUS!!

Religion is full of restrictions. Be happy that you have a more meaningful life than others.

Dimwit! Before cellphones people went hiking!

Please don't post unintelligent stuff. You're clogging the conversation.

Why am I angry? I happen to be a personal friend of Rabbi Sofer, and these comments are making me want to vomit.

[menachem_m]

Hmm and people drove without seat belts as well.

Do you?

Do you not vaccinate your kids?

[Baruch]

I said I wasn't talking about this specific situation

But you were lying. You are talking about this situation, even though you say you aren't. Maybe go to the shiva house and say your chachmos. This thread is about Aaron Sofer. There are people reading it (including me) who are close to the tragedy. Please be quiet, you are being insensitive to us.