Author Topic: Ray Rice  (Read 7905 times)

Offline Baruch

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2014, 02:55:52 PM »
I understand. But what's the excuse to punish more after a video showing what you already knew comes out?

Offline HowYaDoin

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2014, 02:58:34 PM »
I understand. But what's the excuse to punish more after a video showing what you already knew comes out?
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Offline mercaz1

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2014, 03:38:42 PM »
everyone knows what Michael vick did but if there was a video of it he would not be playing now

a video makes it real and that video was so visceral, it begged for a stronger reaction

and its all about the NFL's image

Offline Lou Bob

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2014, 03:42:38 PM »
everyone knows what Michael vick did but if there was a video of it he would not be playing now

a video makes it real and that video was so visceral, it begged for a stronger reaction

and its all about the NFL's image
so now we're comparing people to dogs?
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2014, 04:13:53 PM »
everyone knows what Michael vick did but if there was a video of it he would not be playing now

a video makes it real and that video was so visceral, it begged for a stronger reaction

and its all about the NFL's image
But there already was a video of him dragging her like a piece of meat, that was pretty disturbing too....

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2014, 04:14:00 PM »
so now we're comparing people to dogs?
not comparing at all
just stating that videos make it more real

Offline AI-TRAVEL

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2014, 05:17:24 PM »
Goodels screwed now!

Offline Chapshnell

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Offline Baruch

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2014, 01:06:26 AM »

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2014, 02:56:07 AM »
Who cares if they seen the video or not. Talk about making something out of nothing.
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2014, 08:34:11 AM »
Who cares if they seen the video or not. Talk about making something out of nothing.
Agreed. Today's media creates stories.

Offline Sport

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Ray Rice
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2014, 08:38:27 AM »
This is ridicules. Why do they have to ruin everything.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2014, 09:35:33 AM »
Who cares if they seen the video or not. Talk about making something out of nothing.

It's always the coverup. People don't care what Bill did with Monica, only that he lied about it. People cared more about Paterno's coverup than Sandusky's horrific abuse. Crimes and bad things happen. We want our leaders to hold themselves, and their "employees" accountable - just like we would be held accountable. If I knocked out my wife - or anyone - with a punch, I'd almost certainly get fired from my job.

The NFL is trying to say "We didn't see the video - we didn't see how bad it was." Firstly, that is becoming clearer and clearer to be a lie. Secondly, it underscores the indifference to the case - there is enough evidence without the video - Ray's testimony itself - to know how bad it is. why do you need the video? The fact that they are trying to extricate themselves from their initial bad decision to ban him for two games with the "we only saw the video now" excuse, is rightly being hammered by everyone.

Another point:

The vast majority of us have never seen domestic violence up close. Calling it "domestic" (as seen upthread) only serves to lessen the image in our minds, rather than if it was called something like battery and assault, which is what it is, effectively. It is the video which brings the horrendous story to life and shows just how much the NFL downplayed the issue. (Along with their other mismanagement of the investigation - having Janay testify with Ray is something even a child could tell you is idiotic, let alone a domestic abuse expert.) Yes, the video only confirms what we already knew. But visuals bring to life what countless women experience all the time. It should make us all try learn a little more about these issues, and understand why victims will often stay with the abuser, give excuses for them or accept blame, rather than complain the violent abuser is being treated harshly.


Offline Baruch

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2014, 10:51:02 AM »
Goodell should have said the truth from the beginning.

That he sat down with the Rices, and saw that
1. the victim forgave the abuser
2. the abuser was going thru counseling
3. every punishment to the abuser is also punishing the victim (because they're married)
4. That he believed that Ray was a good person who had one moment of viciousness
5. that the victim hit the abuser first (not an excuse, but makes the crime .01% less vicious)
6. that a Judge didn't give him prison, only counseling (where's the outrage about that?)

He should have given 6 games originally.

But suspending indefinitely, after a video came out showing what you already knew - is wrong.


If you were a boss, and you sat down with a couple that the woman was abused once viciously, and you believed that the abuser was sincerely sorry, and going thru counseling,  and that firing the abuser would punish the victim - would you fire him? I wouldn't. I would just follow up, and with the power of being his boss - make sure everything was going well.


I don't care about Ray, he acted like an animal. I care about his wife, who's being punished because the media likes a big story.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 11:03:13 AM by Baruch »

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2014, 01:52:57 PM »
It's always the coverup. People don't care what Bill did with Monica, only that he lied about it. People cared more about Paterno's coverup than Sandusky's horrific abuse. Crimes and bad things happen. We want our leaders to hold themselves, and their "employees" accountable - just like we would be held accountable. If I knocked out my wife - or anyone - with a punch, I'd almost certainly get fired from my job.

The NFL is trying to say "We didn't see the video - we didn't see how bad it was." Firstly, that is becoming clearer and clearer to be a lie. Secondly, it underscores the indifference to the case - there is enough evidence without the video - Ray's testimony itself - to know how bad it is. why do you need the video? The fact that they are trying to extricate themselves from their initial bad decision to ban him for two games with the "we only saw the video now" excuse, is rightly being hammered by everyone.

Another point:

The vast majority of us have never seen domestic violence up close. Calling it "domestic" (as seen upthread) only serves to lessen the image in our minds, rather than if it was called something like battery and assault, which is what it is, effectively. It is the video which brings the horrendous story to life and shows just how much the NFL downplayed the issue. (Along with their other mismanagement of the investigation - having Janay testify with Ray is something even a child could tell you is idiotic, let alone a domestic abuse expert.) Yes, the video only confirms what we already knew. But visuals bring to life what countless women experience all the time. It should make us all try learn a little more about these issues, and understand why victims will often stay with the abuser, give excuses for them or accept blame, rather than complain the violent abuser is being treated harshly.
Don't know where to start but I will try.
1 - Yes people do care what happened to Monica.
2 - Yes people do care that innocent kids were raped.
3 - Many would not and could not be fired for hitting their wife.
4 - We don't know it is a lie.
5 - How is it battery or assault when she attacked him?
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2014, 02:56:59 PM »
Don't know where to start but I will try.
1 - Yes people do care what happened to Monica.
2 - Yes people do care that innocent kids were raped.
3 - Many would not and could not be fired for hitting their wife.
4 - We don't know it is a lie.
5 - How is it battery or assault when she attacked him?

1 and 2: Of course people care. My comment was referring to the Goodell/NFL aspect of this, not the actual violence. Obviously the abuse got Sandusky in trouble, and is what was most troublesome. But that was handled in court, etc. The bigger tumult in the media was about Paterno, Penn State and their cover up. People are mad about Goodell's coverup and his (the League's) attempt at diminishing the crime.

3. Sure, your company may act differently than mine. The NFL has many policies in place, with suspensions that come down for both legal and criminal activities. There are numerous cases of domestic abuse that have received far lighter consequences than other (less violent) offenses.

4. I said, "is becoming clearer and clearer to be a lie." Between the AP report, the multiple reporters who consistently have reliable league sources (Peter King, Adam Schefter, Chris Mortenson, and more that I'm not remembering off the top of my head) who reported initially that it had been seen, and the law enforcement/casino officials rebuttal of the NFL's claims, it is as close as possible to be a proven lie.

5. That is sad to see, especially coming from someone who is always so level headed on this forum. Calling that an "attack" and turning his vicious reaction into some sort of self defense is somewhat delusional, and smacks of a predetermined opinion being confirmed no mater what the evidence shows.  One of the saddest aspects domestic abuse is the victim blaming, to the point that it comes from by the victims themselves.



Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2014, 02:58:48 PM »


3. Sure, your company may act differently than mine. The NFL has many policies in place, with suspensions that come down for both legal and criminal activities. There are numerous cases of domestic abuse that have received far lighter consequences than other (less violent) offenses.





How many people have been fired for abusing their wives?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2014, 07:42:01 PM »
5. That is sad to see, especially coming from someone who is always so level headed on this forum. Calling that an "attack" and turning his vicious reaction into some sort of self defense is somewhat delusional, and smacks of a predetermined opinion being confirmed no mater what the evidence shows.  One of the saddest aspects domestic abuse is the victim blaming, to the point that it comes from by the victims themselves.
First and foremost he should have never hit her. When you used terms like "battery and assault" I took that as a legal issue and that is what I responded to.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Baruch

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2014, 09:49:23 PM »