PSA - Stay Away From The Card Signup Farms Who Offer $5000 In One Month

[Saulius]

Is it?

Those people/farms book bunch of refundable first class tickets on the airline / miles credit cards, manufacturing hundreds of thousands of points. Then they sell those miles accounts to another party who books airline tickets on them. Then the spending that was manufactured gets refunded causing the credit card / frequent flier accounts go into a negative miles balance. This causes the credit company a financial loss, as they provided 100,000s of miles on spending that was later refunded. Then the party that purchased those points from the"farm" also gets screwed as the airline cancels the tickets, when they realize it was refundable spend. Can anybody explain why this is not ganeiva and not a chilul hashem?

Not to mention when they farms sell the points, they do not disclose that they used refundable spend to manufacture the points, and lie that the accounts are crystal clear with no shtick.

[Emkay]

Those people/farms book bunch of refundable first class tickets on the airline / miles credit cards, manufacturing hundreds of thousands of points. Then they sell those miles accounts to another party who books airline tickets on them. Then the spending that was manufactured gets refunded causing the credit card / frequent flier accounts go into a negative miles balance. This causes the credit company a financial loss, as they provided 100,000s of miles on spending that was later refunded. Then the party that purchased those points from the"farm" also gets screwed as the airline cancels the tickets, when they realize it was refundable spend. Can anybody explain why this is not ganeiva and not a chilul hashem?

Not to mention when they farms sell the points, they do not disclose that they used refundable spend to manufacture the points, and lie that the accounts are crystal clear with no shtick.

So long story short, you're saying its not geneiva.

[as2]

So long story short, you're saying its not geneiva.

In what possible way did you deduce that from what he said?

[Emkay]

In what possible way did you deduce that from what he said?

Very simple. I asked him where it was geneiva and he didn't respond with anywhere that it was.

[aygart]

I would change this sentence a bit.

you’ll have to live the rest of your life with the consequences of whatever happens to your credit.

It makes it seem like there are almost certain consequences and there are not. THere are many who have done this and walked away happy. When people feel that the post said there WILL be credit problems and then find someone who did not have it they will then think that whoever that person did it with is okay while really it is only that the risks did not happen. I think a better way to write it would be "If something happens to your credit you will need to live with the consequences...". Making it too harsh can backfire. I think the focus should be more on the risks of being permanently banned and ruining credit as RISKS. THe horror stories are more of a way to emphasize these risks.

[aygart]

So long story short, you're saying its not geneiva.

His last line probably is geneiva.

Not to mention when they farms sell the points, they do not disclose that they used refundable spend to manufacture the points, and lie that the accounts are crystal clear with no shtick.

[aygart]

Define risk. To publish innuendo that there's a likelihood that it may happen, there should be evidence substantiating that there is more of a risk here than giving it to a doctor, hospital, or TV subscription. That's why I assumed there were data points in this thread to that effect.

Considering that they are very specifically playing games with your credit.....

[as2]

Geneivas daas at the very least

[David Smith]

Considering that they are very specifically playing games with your credit.....

Do you know more people (either numbers wise or percentage wise) that got their credit screwed over by farms, or by asinine medical debt?

[aygart]

Do you know more people (either numbers wise or percentage wise) that got their credit screwed over by farms, or by asinine medical debt?

I happen to know more who were messed up by the farms with a total of 1-0. I am sure there are more who had issues with medical since there are a million times more people who are at risk. Are a higher percent of people who visit doctors victims  or a higher percentage of those who use they farms? Keep in mind that every single person you know has probably been to a doctor in their lifetime.

[Dan]

How's this, http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/108754

[TimT]

Looks good

[Emkay]

How's this, http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/108754

I think this version is better.

[David Smith]

Those people/farms book bunch of refundable first class tickets on the airline / miles credit cards, manufacturing hundreds of thousands of points. Then they sell those miles accounts to another party who books airline tickets on them. Then the spending that was manufactured gets refunded causing the credit card / frequent flier accounts go into a negative miles balance. This causes the credit company a financial loss, as they provided 100,000s of miles on spending that was later refunded. Then the party that purchased those points from the"farm" also gets screwed as the airline cancels the tickets, when they realize it was refundable spend. Can anybody explain why this is not ganeiva and not a chilul hashem?

Not to mention when they farms sell the points, they do not disclose that they used refundable spend to manufacture the points, and lie that the accounts are crystal clear with no shtick.

You know the case you are referring to doesn't apply to 99% of the miles being sold, right? Every competent broker knows AA is a different story.

[Moes Tavern]

How's this, http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/108754

Any chance we can get a follow up voice mail from the sungames investor?

Can you also find out where she is investing her money now? 

[BP16]

Also these farms lie regarding refundables just call and ask and they will deny it. I asked a friend who did by one on the farms to ask Amex for his statment and every business card had a refundable ticket in it. And when asked if they do it they say they never do refundables. Who knows what else they lie about!

[JTZ]

Lets not forget that this whole thing is fraud. Talk about all the different risks you want.

[cholent]

How's this, http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/108754

Fantastic. Much improved

[TimT]

Unfortunately many victims/future victims will never see this post as they have no internet or don't even own a computer. Now if this could somehow make it into the weekly publications, that would be awesome. (I know, not a chance)

[jj1000]

That's an interesting question: who gained more, the average family who follows dansdeals or the average couple that works with these farms? I wonder...

 I think the farms have helped more people make chasunas than Dan has, no offense.

Whose credit got ruined, by the way? I missed that part in this thread. Link?

Define risk. To publish innuendo that there's a likelihood that it may happen, there should be evidence substantiating that there is more of a risk here than giving it to a doctor, hospital, or TV subscription. That's why I assumed there were data points in this thread to that effect.

Do you know more people (either numbers wise or percentage wise) that got their credit screwed over by farms, or by asinine medical debt?

You know the case you are referring to doesn't apply to 99% of the miles being sold, right? Every competent broker knows AA is a different story.

Have a horse in this race much?