Author Topic: Kickstarter: Shabbos App  (Read 35854 times)

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #120 on: October 02, 2014, 02:25:48 PM »

Offline moka

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #121 on: October 02, 2014, 03:48:14 PM »

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #122 on: October 02, 2014, 04:36:12 PM »
They used to have a comments section on the Kickstarter. Now it's gone. They keep mentioning how the Chazon Ish was one opinion, but his "one opinion" is THE reason we don't use electricity on Shabbos.

Offline bobby

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #123 on: October 02, 2014, 05:04:08 PM »
http://youtu.be/aEDHi09oyXY

I was originally opposed to the idea, but after watching the video I'm convinced it's a great idea....said no one ever.

Offline good sam

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #124 on: October 02, 2014, 07:28:04 PM »
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #125 on: October 02, 2014, 07:51:13 PM »
The Aruch Hashulchan permitted the use of telephones on Shabbos?
you read his blog?? !

Offline MC

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #126 on: October 02, 2014, 07:57:40 PM »

you read his blog?? !
Keep your enemies close

Offline etech0

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #127 on: October 02, 2014, 09:03:43 PM »
Keep your enemies close
what's his story, anyways?
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline yoshyosh

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #128 on: October 02, 2014, 09:24:15 PM »
But fact is most contemporary poskim (with the notable exception of the Chazon Ish) will tell you that using electricity is only an issur miderabanan. Of course an issur miderabana is still an issur.
"Young men who are described with the titles of Geonim and intellectual giants, with trimmed beards and clipped peiyos, enter into learned discussion regarding a deep Talmudic passage [with the intent of] arriving at a lenient ruling regarding every matter that is a mitzvah, leaving [the Torah] naked, like a body without a soul. [Moreover,] they have the nerve to challenge the opinions of the Geonim and to crush the prohibitions [enacted] by the Rishonim.
"http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/letters-rebbe-4/022.htm

Offline Baruch

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #129 on: October 02, 2014, 11:08:15 PM »
They used to have a comments section on the Kickstarter. Now it's gone. They keep mentioning how the Chazon Ish was one opinion, but his "one opinion" is THE reason we don't use electricity on Shabbos.
Did you ever learn the sugya?
Almost no contemporary Posek will tell you that we pasken like the Chazon Ish that it's D'Oraysa.

Offline elit

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #130 on: October 02, 2014, 11:11:59 PM »
http://youtu.be/aEDHi09oyXY
I'm not sure they could've done a worse job with that video. And what's with the horrible pronunciation of shabbos??

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #131 on: October 03, 2014, 12:08:23 AM »
Did you ever learn the sugya?
Almost no contemporary Posek will tell you that we pasken like the Chazon Ish that it's D'Oraysa.
I was only once in a Shiur that discussed the topic briefly. It was ~4 years ago, so obviously I must be misremembering something. But I thought it was said for shock value - that something about electricity being Assur is all based on a Da'as Yachid, the Chazon Ish...

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #132 on: October 03, 2014, 12:27:40 AM »
Did you ever learn the sugya?
Almost no contemporary Posek will tell you that we pasken like the Chazon Ish that it's D'Oraysa.
-1

Accepted pesak by all the poskim in every sheila in hilchos shabbos is to be machmir like the chazon ish unless there are extenuating circumstances.


Offline Baruch

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2014, 12:33:33 AM »
-1

Accepted pesak by all the poskim in every sheila in hilchos shabbos is to be machmir like the chazon ish unless there are extenuating circumstances.
According to a Posek that I spoke to many times about this subject, the mainstream accepted Halacha is not like the Chazon Ish. Now, that does not mean that we aren't machmir lechatchila like the Chazon Ish.
But to say that the reason why we don't use electricity today is bec. of the Chazon Ish's Boneh is an overreach.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #134 on: October 03, 2014, 12:37:10 AM »
-1

Accepted pesak by all the poskim in every sheila in hilchos shabbos is to be machmir like the chazon ish unless there are extenuating circumstances.
I knew I heard something to that extent.

Offline thaber

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #135 on: October 03, 2014, 12:43:31 AM »
A worthy perspective from a chashuva talmid chacham, written to out of town kollel members etc.

Lich’vod fellow Roshei V’avreichi Hakollelim shlit’a,
 
I sadly, on Erev Yom Kippur, af al pi sh’aini kedai, feel compelled to make a statement about the shocking new “invention” making the rounds on the internet, advertising the so-called “Shabbos App”, proclaiming as fools any Rabbonim who will come out against it. It was forwarded to me and shook me deeply, to the core of my being, not allowing me to rest. I feel personally compelled, despite my being far from being one fit to make a public statement, to make a macha’ah, because of the perverted and blasphemous attachment of the holy name of my Rebbe, Maran Hagaon Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach zt’l to this advertisement; as if he would approve this thing, as opposed to the opinion of the Chazon Ish. I feel obligated to be mocheh in the honor of his holy name and all he stood for, especially Kedushas Shabbos!
 
There are plenty of halachic issues one could focus upon, however I feel to do so is missing the point. Much more importantly, it should be clear to any Ben Torah that ever opened a sefer, that one could not imagine a greater Chillul Hashem than Jews texting each other on Shabbos Kodesh. It reminds me of a time in Yerushalaim that the level of skirts of some Yungeleit’s wives began getting shorter, and Maran Harav Shach zt’l called a meeting of all the Yungeleit in Yerushalaim in Binyonei Ha’umah. R’ Shach got up and said, “I’m not a poseik so I’m not going to make any statements about this matter from the standpoint of piskei Halacha. What I do have the power to say, is that IT’S KENEGED KOL HATORAH KULAH!! “
 
Much smaller, significantly more benign suggested changes to the accepted halachic system brought significant tzaar to R’ Shlomo Zalman, and I have heard him roar with great anger, “kol hameshaneh yado al hatachtonah!!” With regards to shmiras Shabbos, he expressed to me numerous times how much pain he has that the private teshuva he wrote about inviting non-frum on Shabbos became public, explaining that a blanket kulah like that made public is a “churban hados!!” I shudder to even contemplate how Maran zt’l would have reacted if he even heard the suggestion of a “Shabbos app”, let alone if he would have heard that people have actually made it a reality; Hashem Yiracheim.
 
(Although I don’t want to get involved b’inyonei Halacha, as above: as to the mention of R’ Shlomo Zalman’s disagreement with the Chazon Ish concerning Boneh on Shabbos and k’eilu he would have OK’d this thing against the Chazon Ish: I heard from R Shlomo Zalman on many occasions that, although he personally disagreed with the Chazon Ish, the Halacha for the tzibbur is like the Chazon Ish. This was identical to the opinion of Rav Elyishis zt’l, who said that although he personally disagreed with the Chazon Ish, “k’var horah zakein”).
 
Woe upon a generation that such a matter has befallen us. If we all stand strong in condemning this desercration of Kedushas Shabbos we will, with much Siyata D’shemaya, prevail that it should not be accepted, although, undoubtably, there will be korbanos on the way. If we all resolve to do so, may it be a zechus for us and Klal Yisroel, that in the zechus of Kedushas Shabbos, we should all be blessed with a gemar chasima tova, leshnas bracha vehatzlacha b’chol ha’inyonim, and the geulah sheleima bimheira v’yameinu.
 
 
Rabbi Yerachmiel D. Fried
Dean / Rosh Hakollel
DATA, The Dallas Community Kollel

Offline steeeveknowsbest

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #136 on: October 03, 2014, 01:15:10 AM »
In the last week as i gave a Yom kippur prep class to a group of mostly non-religious men, some reform and some somewhat frum, i broached the topic of the "Shabbos App".

I asked them for their opinions as to this idea, i attempted to sound as pareve as possible to feel out how they actually feel without leading them.

I was thrilled at the response!
Every single one of them (even those who are not Shomer Shabbos) was disgusted and disturbed by the concept. Not one defended it's purpose.

Clearly there is something so fundamentally wrong with it that anyone can see!

Offline Crazy tools

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #137 on: October 03, 2014, 01:37:40 AM »
Assuming this app actually takes away any dioraisa, I can see a reason to develop this app for pikuach nefesh circumstances, ie hatzolah members, doctors - Just like they have certain technology in Israeli hospitals. But to market this for the general is ridiculous and gonna make thousands fall for it.

Anyways the following is a copy of a post from someone's Facebook wall, not sure what it's worth.

Quote
Based on this speech by Rabbi Heineman on Sabbath Mode ovens, it seems that this app clearly is Assur
1) He (at the 21 minute mark) Assers typing on a computer with the screen off. Right off the bat, that would render this app as no good.
2) Right after that, he explains why Grama works by the oven, and bases on his explanation, it would NOT work here to make a difference,The reason Grama is OK by the oven, he explains,, is because you are not Mechaven for the fire to turn on and off, you just want it to be 300 degrees. You would be perfectly fine if the fire stayed at a steady 300 degrees. So the fact that it cools off to 290, truns the fire on until 310, turns it off until it cools off, that is not your Kavana, so it is OK.That would indicate that in THIS case, it would NOT be OK
In this case, you are not doing something else, and a byproduct is an electronic message that "happens but is not your Kavanah".In this case, you Kavana IS the electronic message, so it is very hard to say that Grama here is OK.http://star-k.org/media/ShabbosMode.mp3
ShabbosMode
STAR-K.ORG
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 01:43:35 AM by Crazy tools »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #138 on: October 03, 2014, 02:17:44 AM »
Assuming this app actually takes away any dioraisa, I can see a reason to develop this app for pikuach nefesh circumstances, ie hatzolah members, doctors - Just like they have certain technology in Israeli hospitals. But to market this for the general is ridiculous and gonna make thousands fall for it.

Anyways the following is a copy of a post from someone's Facebook wall, not sure what it's worth.

In a real pikuach nefesh situation, having a phone with time delays would be probably more assur than actually using the phone regularly.
לא תעמוד על דם רעיך.
וחי בהם.
And etc..
Visibly Jewish

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #139 on: October 03, 2014, 02:20:56 AM »
Visibly Jewish