Author Topic: Kickstarter: Shabbos App  (Read 35857 times)

Offline semper fi

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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2014, 03:24:57 PM »
Uvdin Dechol doesn't apply to anything you decide to apply it to just because you're not used to see people doing it on shabbos. This has been discussed numerous times when new technologies  came out. Here's a list of a few that come to mind that some poskim tried assuring due to them being עובדין דחול but eventually people got used to it and today nobody thinks they are that.

Shabbos clocks
Putting gas into seltzer
Pushing a carriage where there's an eruv.

According to most poskim, in order for something to be prohibitted for being uvdin de'chol it must be one of the following two things, 1) It should be something that involves טורח גדול, such as carrying very heavy non muktza items from one house to another, exercise according to some, or 2) it should be something that there's a חשש that it can come to a מלאכה דאורייתא.
Not that I agree with this, but your point #2 should apply to phones anyway.

Offline bobby

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2014, 04:45:20 PM »
OK. All it takes it two words: Uvdin dechol. It is ossur. No ifs or buts.
There is absolutely nothing else to discuss from a halachic perspective.
I challenge anyone to find a posek who is a Ben yeshiva (not a collage grad with a degree in "halachic theory") who will not categorically dismiss this on the uvdin dechol basis.

That's a lazy answer. I may agree with you in theory but no doubt the same arguments were made by other inventions we're now okay with. There's plenty to attack in the investor's superficial and ignorant halachic "analysis". Why resort to uvda dichol arguments?

Offline Moishel

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2014, 04:51:43 PM »
Not that I agree with this, but your point #2 should apply to phones anyway.
How so?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #104 on: September 30, 2014, 06:33:53 PM »
That's a lazy answer. I may agree with you in theory but no doubt the same arguments were made by other inventions we're now okay with. There's plenty to attack in the investor's superficial and ignorant halachic "analysis". Why resort to uvda dichol arguments?
Because it makes the whole project a non starter.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #105 on: September 30, 2014, 06:36:21 PM »
How so?
You'll forget and use the phone in a million ways that are definitely chillul shabbos. (Assuming that there is any possible way to use it without. [There isn't BTW])

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #106 on: September 30, 2014, 06:37:43 PM »

You'll forget and use the phone in a million ways that are definitely chillul shabbos. (Assuming that there is any possible way to use it without. [There isn't BTW])

Doraisah?

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #107 on: September 30, 2014, 06:41:02 PM »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #108 on: September 30, 2014, 06:56:58 PM »
Is a D'rabanan allowed?
Chazal are not so respected in some circles.....

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #109 on: September 30, 2014, 06:58:20 PM »
Doraisah?
Yes, maavir, boneh, mesaken, hotzoah, kosev, mocheck, the possibilities are endless.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #110 on: September 30, 2014, 07:20:59 PM »

Is a D'rabanan allowed?

No. But but #2 above specified D'oiraisah.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2014, 07:21:27 PM »

Chazal are not so respected in some circles.....

Nice. Yom Kippur is pretty soon.

Offline bobby

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #112 on: September 30, 2014, 08:15:34 PM »
Because it makes the whole project a non starter.

No, it's a non-starter because it doesn't work halachically. I promise you if you tell 15-17 year old kids they can't use it because of "uvdin di'chol" nearly all of them will go ahead and use it- and I don't blame them. You tell them that this a scam and doesn't solve any of the halachic issues then those that were shomer shabbos beforehand will not use it.

Offline Centro

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #113 on: September 30, 2014, 10:02:59 PM »
Chazal are not so respected in some circles.....


הלעיטהו לרשע וימות

Offline Moishel

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #114 on: September 30, 2014, 10:30:35 PM »
Yes, maavir, boneh, mesaken, hotzoah, kosev, mocheck, the possibilities are endless.
מבעיר applies to fire only, most poskim agree that it didn't doesn't apply to florescent, and definitely not LED.
Boneh, the חזון איש was a יחיד in this opinion, no other notable posek agrees that closing a circuit is considered building.
Mesaken what?
Where does hotzaah come in to the picture?
How exactly does turning on certain pixels on a screen constitute kosev?


Offline bobby

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #115 on: September 30, 2014, 10:31:22 PM »
Yes, maavir, boneh, mesaken, hotzoah, kosev, mocheck, the possibilities are endless.

The possibilities are indeed endless. But fact is most contemporary poskim (with the notable exception of the Chazon Ish) will tell you that using electricity is only an issur miderabanan. Of course an issur miderabana is still an issur.

Offline almass

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #116 on: October 01, 2014, 09:47:03 AM »
everyone forgot to post the deal side of this that it is $5.00 opposed to $50.00 when the app comes out on the play store in February.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Kickstarter: Shabbos App
« Reply #117 on: October 01, 2014, 12:35:31 PM »
everyone forgot to post the deal side of this that it is $5.00 opposed to $50.00 when the app comes out on the play store in February.
IF it comes out, now Its just a concept (and a terrible one at that)

Offline Crazy tools

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Offline Crazy tools

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