Author Topic: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years  (Read 7818 times)

Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 09:59:29 AM »
hes a hall of famer wether you like it or not. He has the numbers he needs and played consistently well for many years.
I agree.
My prob is first ballot.

Mariano is so much greater than him, it's hillarious!

"He's so classy" - I'm gonna puke! He just was obsessed with his public image, and great at PR.

Offline smurf

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2014, 10:02:04 AM »
I agree.
My prob is first ballot.

Mariano is so much greater than him, it's hillarious!
first ballot or not often times boils down to popularity/likability.
He's got those covered

Offline TimT

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2014, 10:02:13 AM »
:o
You don't think for yourself?
His stats don't justify first ballot. Period.

Here's a list of players who were not first ballots:
Joe DiMaggio, Cy Young, Rogers Hornsby, Yogi Berra, Carl Hubbell, Lefty Grove, Hank Greenberg, Robin Roberts, Whitey Ford, Eddie Mathews, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Harmon Killebrew, Jimmie Foxx, Ferguson Jenkins, Duke Snider, Mel Ott, Tris Speaker, Juan Marichal, Pie Traynor, Dizzy Dean, Roy Campanella, Bill Dickey and Catfish Hunter
There will always be a few idiots who vote no just because they have the power to.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2014, 10:02:48 AM »
first ballot or not often times boils down to popularity/likability.
He's got those covered
That's exactly my problem. That should not be the qualifications for first ballot.

Offline TimT

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2014, 10:04:06 AM »
Mariano is so much greater than him, it's hillarious!
Thats a debate that's been around forever, closer vs everyday hitter. But Mo being a first ballot shouldn't take away from jeter.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2014, 10:08:36 AM »
Thats a debate that's been around forever, closer vs everyday hitter.
Greatest closer of all time vs. never won an MVP shortstop = please don't make me laugh.

Offline TimT

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2014, 10:12:04 AM »
Greatest closer of all time vs. never won an MVP shortstop = please don't make me laugh.
Nobody's debating that Mo was better at his job than Jeter was at his.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2014, 10:13:41 AM »
Nobody's debating that Mo was better at his job than Jeter was at his.
better? That's an understatement. Mo was historic at his job, Jeter was very very good at his.

Offline TimT

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 10:19:29 AM »
better? That's an understatement. Mo was historic at his job, Jeter was very very good at his.
100%. But when you have 162 games the greatest closer could've saved 30-40 of them vs a great hitter that could've made a difference in far more.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:23:27 AM by TimT »

Offline Sport

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Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 10:32:54 AM »
If you were a gm building a team, who would you take to build your team around Jeter or Mo?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2014, 10:51:53 AM »
Greatest one inning closer of all time..
FTFY.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 10:52:06 AM »
If you were a gm building a team, who would you take to build your team around Jeter or Mo?
Fair point

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 11:01:47 AM »
better? That's an understatement. Mo was historic at his job, Jeter was very very good at his.

I could be historically good at being a Gatorade cooler carrier, while Jeter could be very good at his. What is the connection? There are stats you could use to try measure the worth of a player even at different positions. For instance, Mariano has a career WAR of 40. Jeter is almost double at 73.

No one will deny Mariano is the best closer ever. (Though it is a relatively new invention) Similarly, Jeter was far from the greatest defender, far from the greatest hitter and his "clutch" and "leadership" abilities can be argued to be mythical. But what no one will deny, even his greatest detractors, is that he performed far above average at a most premium position for a very long time. Most would call him one of the top 5 short stops in history.

So what if someone else on the team was better for a period of time. So what if another player was better at their job than Jeter was at his. So what if Baseball writers didn't give him an MVP award (though he clearly did deserve one)? Does that detract from his insanely good career?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2014, 11:07:38 AM »
:o
You don't think for yourself?
His stats don't justify first ballot. Period.

Here's a list of players who were not first ballots:
Joe DiMaggio, Cy Young, Rogers Hornsby, Yogi Berra, Carl Hubbell, Lefty Grove, Hank Greenberg, Robin Roberts, Whitey Ford, Eddie Mathews, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Harmon Killebrew, Jimmie Foxx, Ferguson Jenkins, Duke Snider, Mel Ott, Tris Speaker, Juan Marichal, Pie Traynor, Dizzy Dean, Roy Campanella, Bill Dickey and Catfish Hunter
Take a look at all the players that did make it on the first ballot and tell me that Jeter does not rank higher than at least one of them.

Since I don't think for myself I will have to rely on your judgment on this one. Where do you rank his post season stats?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline stmark

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2014, 12:10:44 PM »
Keith Olbermann's take on Jeter. Makes some good points.



Offline Dan

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 12:20:55 PM »
Keith Olbermann's take on Jeter. Makes some good points.


Finally, some normalcy.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 12:36:48 PM »
Keith Olbermann's take on Jeter. Makes some good points.


Part 2 - just because he did, indeed, make the rain stop ;-)




Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2014, 12:46:50 PM »
I could be historically good at being a Gatorade cooler carrier, while Jeter could be very good at his. What is the connection? There are stats you could use to try measure the worth of a player even at different positions. For instance, Mariano has a career WAR of 40. Jeter is almost double at 73.

No one will deny Mariano is the best closer ever. (Though it is a relatively new invention) Similarly, Jeter was far from the greatest defender, far from the greatest hitter and his "clutch" and "leadership" abilities can be argued to be mythical. But what no one will deny, even his greatest detractors, is that he performed far above average at a most premium position for a very long time. Most would call him one of the top 5 short stops in history.

So what if someone else on the team was better for a period of time. So what if another player was better at their job than Jeter was at his. So what if Baseball writers didn't give him an MVP award (though he clearly did deserve one)? Does that detract from his insanely good career?
His career wasn't insanely good - it was very very good.

He is a very very good player - a Hall of Famer even, but he is being insanely overrated.

Offline stmark

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2014, 12:50:52 PM »
His career wasn't insanely good - it was very very good.

He is a very very good player - a Hall of Famer even, but he is being insanely overrated.
+1

Offline Baruch

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Re: Derek Jeter retires after 18 years
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2014, 12:56:56 PM »
First time I ever agreed with Olberman. (Except about that Jeter cost them this season.)