Sold miles, broker never used them, what's their status?

[Twin]

Just Ask your LOR!

+1k
I hope you don't plan on paskinen from what anyone is saying in this thread, no on here is your rabbi and such things need to be asked to your rabbi.

[Twin]

But then we'd miss out on this thought provoking conversation and the opportunity to use our minds a bit. 

We can still continue to speculate and say our thoughts but no one should paskin from what I say,

[Traveler718]

Thanks for the disclaimer, but I never meant to use "Rabbi DDF" for the final word. I just wanted to understand the issues involved in the shaila, and as you see, people's comments led me to check the original terms of the sale and to discover the 2 month clause. I also need to make sure the Rav understands the "minhag hamakom" in this area, so please continue the discussion, which is very much appreciated.

[sky121]

Thanks for the disclaimer, but I never meant to use "Rabbi DDF" for the final word. I just wanted to understand the issues involved in the shaila, and as you see, people's comments led me to check the original terms of the sale and to discover the 2 month clause. I also need to make sure the Rav understands the "minhag hamakom" in this area, so please continue the discussion, which is very much appreciated.

+100

[Matovu]

I had the same issue with AA, but then i sold the same currency to the same broker months later , and i told him that you never took the first 100k...

[Matovu]

Also in my situation i was getting scared of all the AA shutdowns...

[ckmk47]

Traveler718,  If you want to go lifnim m'shuras hadin in the area of chesed, you could ask your broker to contact the broker he sold it to and tell him about the unused points.  You seemed to indicate that the other buyer has changed management.  Maybe this account fell through their cracks.
(I doubt your broker would give you their info, but if he would, you can contact them yourself.)

[beeweegee]

How about this similar, yet very different, question?

I once sold a BA account with like 54k in it. The points were used to book flights that totaled 50k. The remaining 4000+ avios were left there (for over 2 years).  Can I use the remaining 4k?

Presumably, here they were unwanted, not forgotten, but does that give me a right to use them?

(My posek said yes...)

[MEIR613]

How about this similar, yet very different, question?

I once sold a BA account with like 54k in it. The points were used to book flights that totaled 50k. The remaining 4000+ avios were left there (for over 2 years).  Can I use the remaining 4k?

Presumably, here they were unwanted, not forgotten, but does that give me a right to use them?

(My posek said yes...)

Why not call the broker and ask him?

[ckmk47]

How about this similar, yet very different, question?

I once sold a BA account with like 54k in it. The points were used to book flights that totaled 50k. The remaining 4000+ avios were left there (for over 2 years).  Can I use the remaining 4k?

Presumably, here they were unwanted, not forgotten, but does that give me a right to use them?

(My posek said yes...)

I bought united  miles from a broker.  He gave me an account login that I used to book my tickets.  One ticket I got for fewer miles than I expected, so I still had 30K in that account.  Sometime later, I checked the account and saw that it was accumulating miles again.
I contacted my broker, but we decided I should get a hold of the account holder myself. I emailed him, and nothing was concluded.  (not out of rancor, just out of lack of persistence.)
More time passed and I made another ticket for 25K.  Still 5K of mine in the account.
I should have contacted him and asked to be paid for those miles when he sells.  But I was a smart aleck.  I transferred 20 of MY Ultimate Reward points into the account and made another ticket for 25K.  THEN I emailed the account holder with a fait accompli. 
He was annoyed that I may have ruined his broker's interest. I apologized, and told him (honestly) that [/size]I used a mobile with a one-time-use IP.  I told him about the ticket holder so it could pass as his relative. But what's done is done.

My point is that even in small amounts, leftover miles may still be owned by the buyer.

[beeweegee]

Why not call the broker and ask him?

Good question,  it was actually my wife who sold them before we were married, and she had no contact info for the buyer.

[Yeki89]

I don't even hear the question.

Obviously it is the buyers

[Ergel]

I transferred 20 of MY Ultimate Reward points into the account and made another ticket for 25K.  THEN I emailed the account holder with a fait accompli.

You did what?

My point is that even in small amounts, leftover miles may still be owned by the buyer.

You're story proves nothing (other than the fact that you did something wrong)

[Drago]

If you didn't make up with the buyer b4 selling them how can you say now that the buyer has to remove them in reasonable timeframe, that wasn't the deal.
Deal was $x for x-miles

+1
Even if the website said they'd use it within x time, I don't think that's enough to go on to take them back.

How about this similar, yet very different, question?

I once sold a BA account with like 54k in it. The points were used to book flights that totaled 50k. The remaining 4000+ avios were left there (for over 2 years).  Can I use the remaining 4k?

Presumably, here they were unwanted, not forgotten, but does that give me a right to use them?

If he paid you for 54k, then IMO, you can't use them. If he paid you for 50k, then yes.

[chuchem]

I must say, I am very disapointed in how people act here

If I buy a six pack of beer of you and pay right away. Its lying in your basement and I told you I will come to pick it up and I forgot about it, would you drink it? Isn't the right and honest thing to do, to call me and remind me??!!

You sold miles and were paid for them...so the miles don't belong to you anymore... even if the enduser doesn't want them anymore, they belong to the broker, as he made the "kinyan" from you. So it's for sure not yours
I don't understand why the broker doesn't email the buyer and say: hey did you forget about it? No matter what religion the buyer is! Its honesty!!

Thats honesty and I would expect this from any broker I deal with! Trust me, you will have much more success in life being honest and not trying to profit of others mistakes

[Yaalili]

I must say, I am very disapointed in how people act here

If I buy a six pack of beer of you and pay right away. Its lying in your basement and I told you I will come to pick it up and I forgot about it, would you drink it? Isn't the right and honest thing to do, to call me and remind me??!!

You sold miles and were paid for them...so the miles don't belong to you anymore... even if the enduser doesn't want them anymore, they belong to the broker, as he made the "kinyan" from you. So it's for sure not yours
I don't understand why the broker doesn't email the buyer and say: hey did you forget about it? No matter what religion the buyer is! Its honesty!!

Thats honesty and I would expect this from any broker I deal with! Trust me, you will have much more success in life being honest and not trying to profit of others mistakes

Gut Gezogt!

[Drago]

I must say, I am very disapointed in how people act here

If I buy a six pack of beer of you and pay right away. Its lying in your basement and I told you I will come to pick it up and I forgot about it, would you drink it? Isn't the right and honest thing to do, to call me and remind me??!!

You sold miles and were paid for them...so the miles don't belong to you anymore... even if the enduser doesn't want them anymore, they belong to the broker, as he made the "kinyan" from you. So it's for sure not yours
I don't understand why the broker doesn't email the buyer and say: hey did you forget about it? No matter what religion the buyer is! Its honesty!!

Thats honesty and I would expect this from any broker I deal with! Trust me, you will have much more success in life being honest and not trying to profit of others mistakes

+1

[frozy]

Okay everyone just get a handle. No one sold miles, no one bought miles. The miles are non transferable as per BA's legally binding T&C, and most if not all other mileage currencies.  You don't even own your own miles as per the same.  You may have certain rights as the accountholder but that's about it. If, in a mileage sale one side decides to screw over the other, the injured party would have no remedy by courts.

So everyone stop hocking with קנין, מקח טעות, אונאה,  זוטו של ים, אוא"ו.  Clearly you want to keep your word and as you got $ you won't just run off with the miles, but this should definitely be subject to the norms of the industry.

One more thing - if your wife had the account before marriage it would be נכסי מלוג and you'd own a קנין פירות

[PlatinumGuy]

One more thing - if your wife had the account before marriage it would be נכסי מלוג and you'd own a קנין פירות

So everyone stop hocking with קנין, מקח טעות, אונאה,  זוטו של ים, אוא"ו.

[frozy]

Yeyeh