Author Topic: Private Pilot's License  (Read 48074 times)

Offline a-mo

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #240 on: April 26, 2020, 08:34:30 PM »
I am thinking of buying a 2nd aeroplane and starting a  hamish flight school. Who would support this? I just met about the 15th yid today at work that wants to learn how to fly. My aeroplane is strictly aerobatic but I am thinking of buying maybe a piper warrior that was damaged and having my mechanic fixing it up. It would be based at KFWN Sussex NJ. I would work out transportation for those that need it.

Let me know your thoughts.

Very interested!

Offline moko

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #241 on: April 26, 2020, 08:51:37 PM »
Very interested!
Me too but the post is 5 years old

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #242 on: April 26, 2020, 10:25:35 PM »
I’ve seen frum people deplaning in Lakewood

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #243 on: May 11, 2020, 11:48:16 AM »


Me too but the post is 5 years old

Me too, except not at FWN. That's way too far for me. I flew out of FRG for a while, but LDJ really makes the most sense for me. Would love it if we could get a frum flying club going. I would warn, however, that a frum club would possibly need to be half the size of a similar-budget non-Jewish club because there are no Saturdays to fly on and very high demand during, for example, chol hamoed. Perhaps a different structure would be in order. In any event, buying an old Archer, fixing it up and modernizing it a little and then having a club of, say 7-15 people would be a great idea. I think with a mortgage, it would be pretty doable and cost-effective.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #244 on: May 11, 2020, 03:13:15 PM »

Me too, except not at FWN. That's way too far for me. I flew out of FRG for a while, but LDJ really makes the most sense for me. Would love it if we could get a frum flying club going. I would warn, however, that a frum club would possibly need to be half the size of a similar-budget non-Jewish club because there are no Saturdays to fly on and very high demand during, for example, chol hamoed. Perhaps a different structure would be in order. In any event, buying an old Archer, fixing it up and modernizing it a little and then having a club of, say 7-15 people would be a great idea. I think with a mortgage, it would be pretty doable and cost-effective.
for the schedule reasons you mentioned, why would you want a full jewish club?
Why not intentionally recruit goyim for the other half group?

Offline YitzR

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #245 on: May 11, 2020, 04:58:32 PM »
flying is my dream!

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #246 on: May 11, 2020, 05:05:11 PM »
for the schedule reasons you mentioned, why would you want a full jewish club?
Why not intentionally recruit goyim for the other half group?

I'm not against that at all. It just sounded like people were talking about an all-frum club.

Offline Joeymc

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #247 on: May 13, 2020, 01:38:38 PM »

Me too, except not at FWN. That's way too far for me. I flew out of FRG for a while, but LDJ really makes the most sense for me. Would love it if we could get a frum flying club going. I would warn, however, that a frum club would possibly need to be half the size of a similar-budget non-Jewish club because there are no Saturdays to fly on and very high demand during, for example, chol hamoed. Perhaps a different structure would be in order. In any event, buying an old Archer, fixing it up and modernizing it a little and then having a club of, say 7-15 people would be a great idea. I think with a mortgage, it would be pretty doable and cost-effective.
Assuming this would be able to work out, how much are we talking about per person, ball park?
120 characters? Hmm, I wonder what I could write with 64 characters. Boy, it's gonna be hard to use up 15 characters. W-

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #248 on: May 13, 2020, 01:42:45 PM »

Offline Iz

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Offline Luvisrael

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #250 on: May 13, 2020, 09:29:51 PM »
Just keep this in mind:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/05/12/small-plane-crashed-in-pembroke-pines-neighborhood/
whats that supposed to mean? Do u drive a car? Thousands die every year from car accidents

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #251 on: May 14, 2020, 02:01:39 PM »
Assuming this would be able to work out, how much are we talking about per person, ball park?

So here's the basic deal (I'm going to try and lay it out assuming you have no clue, but maybe you know a lot of this already). The club structure is non-profit usually, which means that the costs are actually similar between the clubs. So that means that you can actually get a decent idea of cost by looking at what clubs' rates are. In the NY area, the rates are as follows:

- ~$500 initiation fee, non-refundable
- a refundable deposit (this is where the range is pretty large, which makes sense. It's a deposit, so it's not really a cost)
- monthly maintenance fee of between ~ $60 and $100 per month
- hourly rate (billed by tach hour, not hobbs, and it can include fuel or not - "wet" and "dry", respectively). If it includes fuel, it can be ~$100/hour, and if you have to pay for your own fuel, it can be between $60-$80/hr depending on the type of plane).

The above costs are more than enough to cover tie-downs and basic regular fees. That's intentional, because you need to cover the mortgage and also put money away for expected maintenance costs (like engine refurbs, new lights, etc).

Because of scheduling, most clubs have a limit on how many members they can have per plane that they own. This is another thing that makes the fees more predictable for our hypothetical scenario. If we get 10 members, that will probably make the above numbers pretty realistic I think. And we should be able to accommodate up to about 15 members or so depending on how much we all fly.

Now there is variability. Planes have a wide range of costs (anywhere from 35K-200k or more, but a decent plane will likely be in the 60k-100k range). Also, which airport can have a significant impact on cost (tiedown fees, for example).

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #252 on: May 14, 2020, 02:47:50 PM »
Just keep this in mind:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/05/12/small-plane-crashed-in-pembroke-pines-neighborhood/

I mean there's a bigger chance of a person dying in a car accident, a fall or being poisoned than in an airplane accident. Besides, most airplane accidents are much more easily preventable than those causes. Have a look at the causes in my second link. Almost all of those, even the ones not listed as pilot error, are usually preventable with a careful pilot.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

Offline Block Time

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #253 on: February 10, 2021, 12:11:43 AM »
Hi all,
I just registered to DansDeals after someone sent me a link to this wonderful thread.
Thanks tons to all who posted here , esp. @shtank, also @Achas Veachas @yidsimple and @Yaalili.
I am a true aviation enthusiast and wish to "be on the fly" one day, but for now it is impossible for me, so I just enjoy the discussion and gather information wherever possible, and I'm really happy to find this thread.

Let me ask one question (I mean... for the only purpose of reading I didn't have to register...).
I applied for a student certificate via IACRA, although I don't plan in starting flight school in the coming few months. I just want to have it for the sake of having it and for increasing my odds to get permission to visit FAA facilities etc.
My question is, according to FAA regulations, is it permitted for an CFI to recommend the approval for an application without a clear plan to start training? and if it is, will I be able to find an instructor that will be ready to help me even if I'm not his student?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. Sorry if I miswrote anything, English is not my first language

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #254 on: February 17, 2021, 05:21:48 PM »

Let me ask one question (I mean... for the only purpose of reading I didn't have to register...).
I applied for a student certificate via IACRA, although I don't plan in starting flight school in the coming few months. I just want to have it for the sake of having it and for increasing my odds to get permission to visit FAA facilities etc.
My question is, according to FAA regulations, is it permitted for an CFI to recommend the approval for an application without a clear plan to start training? and if it is, will I be able to find an instructor that will be ready to help me even if I'm not his student?


I don't remember all the details but it doesn't appear to be against regulations: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=ca2b0d5f1c9951743ff93a43e84f3dd6&mc=true&node=sp14.2.61.c&rgn=div6#se14.2.61_183

From what I do remember, you need to get a (3rd class) medical and the medical certificate itself is your student certificate. I forget whether the instructor has to refer you to the medical examiner. I think instructors are required to conduct a background check or something. I would find it awkward to ask a CFI to do anything unless you plan on at least trying to take a lesson with them, but that's me.

BTW, since you're interested, I have been on flights and asked the pilots post-flight to get into the cockpit (at the time I was only a student) and they agreed (Jetblue A320) but El Al said (direct quote in heavy Hebrew accent) "not a chance." But it's worth asking. Also, something you might consider (maybe with a group of enthusiasts) is to get a tour of a local (Class C or D) tower. I found it interesting.

Offline Block Time

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #255 on: February 17, 2021, 06:37:50 PM »
I don't remember all the details but it doesn't appear to be against regulations: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=ca2b0d5f1c9951743ff93a43e84f3dd6&mc=true&node=sp14.2.61.c&rgn=div6#se14.2.61_183

From what I do remember, you need to get a (3rd class) medical and the medical certificate itself is your student certificate. I forget whether the instructor has to refer you to the medical examiner. I think instructors are required to conduct a background check or something. I would find it awkward to ask a CFI to do anything unless you plan on at least trying to take a lesson with them, but that's me.

BTW, since you're interested, I have been on flights and asked the pilots post-flight to get into the cockpit (at the time I was only a student) and they agreed (Jetblue A320) but El Al said (direct quote in heavy Hebrew accent) "not a chance." But it's worth asking. Also, something you might consider (maybe with a group of enthusiasts) is to get a tour of a local (Class C or D) tower. I found it interesting.
Thanks for replying.
I actually reached out to the FSDO to ask them, he told me that instructors will not do it, (he didn't want to go in to details about regulation stuff, so I guess it is not a regulation).

I mentioned above that I want to get the certificate "For increasing my odds to get permission to visit FAA facilities etc.". So I wish to visit a tower or any other ATC facility and I read on Pilot Forums that holding a certificate of any kind can make it easier to gain entry. That's what I meant.
I even called a few of them, but none of them gave permission DTC.

Offline shtank

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #256 on: March 15, 2021, 06:29:06 PM »
Thanks for replying.
I actually reached out to the FSDO to ask them, he told me that instructors will not do it, (he didn't want to go in to details about regulation stuff, so I guess it is not a regulation).

I mentioned above that I want to get the certificate "For increasing my odds to get permission to visit FAA facilities etc.". So I wish to visit a tower or any other ATC facility and I read on Pilot Forums that holding a certificate of any kind can make it easier to gain entry. That's what I meant.
I even called a few of them, but none of them gave permission DTC.

Sorry. Just seeing this. Well, there's no reason you can't "plan to start training" and then drop out (like most people, actually). Also, not sure FSDO is a good place to call for anything. I'd never call them unless I were forced to.

Offline Block Time

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Re: Private Pilot's License
« Reply #257 on: March 19, 2021, 10:48:28 AM »
Sorry. Just seeing this. Well, there's no reason you can't "plan to start training" and then drop out (like most people, actually). Also, not sure FSDO is a good place to call for anything. I'd never call them unless I were forced to.
Valuable piece of advice. Thank you!


Offline yesitsme

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