Hagaon Harav Shteinman: Going on Har Habayis is absolutely Assur & causes Tzaros

[moish]

very easy to have a sfek sfeka

whats the second safek?

[Chaikel]

whats the second safek?

All you have to do is find a shita that holds Azara is mutar in a certain circumstance, or some loophole in tuma. I'm not a boki in taharos, but I'm sure someone who knows it well can figure out a situation of safek

[yare]

So still no idea, huh.

This has been discussed. NO one holds going onto har habayis is chiyuv krisus if you take care of the tumos, it's just amaratzus by certain people who try to pass themselves off as being part of the binei torah community. Kind of like asking for the tail from the korban pesach. At best it's a safek krisus of maybe you'll go on makom azara which makes it very easy to have a sfek sfeka

kol gedolei yisrael bkaf achas v'chaikel bkaf ha'shani

All you have to do is find a shita that holds Azara is mutar in a certain circumstance, or some loophole in tuma. I'm not a boki in taharos, but I'm sure someone who knows it well can figure out a situation of safek

so basically like the t&c's of an airline program? sounds about right.

[Ergel]

All you have to do is find a shita that holds Azara is mutar in a certain circumstance, or some loophole in tuma. I'm not a boki in taharos, but I'm sure someone who knows it well can figure out a situation of safek

The raavad holds that kedushas yerushalayim is batel (unlike the rambam) and there is no issur to go into the azarah.

However, that doesn't make it mutar. You can't just say it's a sfek sfeka and poof everything's OK

[elikay]

All you have to do is find a shita that holds Azara is mutar in a certain circumstance, or some loophole in tuma. I'm not a boki in taharos, but I'm sure someone who knows it well can figure out a situation of safek

I'm not sure if Saturday is Shabbos and I am not sure that electricity is assur, Sfek Sfeika! Champagne anyone?

[Baruch]

All you have to do is find a shita that holds Azara is mutar in a certain circumstance, or some loophole in tuma. I'm not a boki in taharos, but I'm sure someone who knows it well can figure out a situation of safek

lol. Did you really write that comment?

[Chaikel]

I'm not sure if Saturday is Shabbos and I am not sure that electricity is assur, Sfek Sfeika! Champagne anyone?

I'm going to be Dan lkaf zechus that you're not trying to further exhibit your am haratzus, and you're trying to back me up referring to the Ran in megila and and pesachim regarding arba kosos

Thanks! But in the future if you could be less vague and quote your sources. Might confuse some of the others here

[Menachem613]

I'm not sure if Saturday is Shabbos and I am not sure that electricity is assur, Sfek Sfeika! Champagne anyone?

What on earth?? Clearly you drank too much champagne.

[Ergel]

Stop while you're not so far behind

[Ergel]

Anyone frum who goes is because they have done research and believe they know where the azarah is. Not some silly vsfek sfeka

[elikay]

I'm going to be Dan lkaf zechus that you're not trying to further exhibit your am haratzus, and you're trying to back me up referring to the Ran in megila and and pesachim regarding arba kosos


Thanks! But in the future if you could be less vague and quote your sources. Might confuse some of the others here

Are we really getting personal here?
Why are we discussing random sfek sfeika, when we know that you cannot just invent a sfek sfeika. And yes, I challenge you to actually present something here instead of being vague the whole time.

Anyone frum who goes is because they have done research and believe they know where the azarah is. Not some silly vsfek sfeka

Halonu ata, im letzoreinu?

[elikay]

For starters where is the mokom of Kodesh Hakodoshim?
Secondly, why is this at all relevant when Horav Elyashiv said that it is Pikuach Nefesh to go up to Har Habayis?!

[Aaaron]

Secondly, why is this at all relevant when Horav Elyashiv said that it is Pikuach Nefesh to go up to Har Habayis?!

Umm, because others rely on their own Poskim who may disagree. 

[Ergel]

Halonu ata, im letzoreinu?

Atah basi.

But in all seriousness, I would not go on Har habayis nor recommend it to anyone else. I was just saying that even those that guy don't based on some silly sfek sfeka.

[Baruch]

Umm, because others rely on their own Poskim who may disagree. 

He mentioned Rav Eliyashiv's objections based on "Pikuach nefesh", not Halachic reasons.

[Aaaron]

He mentioned Rav Eliyashiv's objections based on "Pikuach nefesh", not Halachic reasons.

Tomato/tomato. 

[Baruch]

Tomato/tomato.

no. 

[Baruch]

In Krayna De'Igrasa  it says that no one today knows how to check or count for ziva. Therefore there is absolutely no way to become tahor from zivah and we are all besofek zovim.

[Chaikel]

And yes, I challenge you to actually present something here instead of being vague the whole time.

As far as I can tell I'm the only one who brought sources in this argument. So instead of being vague and making up things in the name of "many poskim" or "most poskim" or in the name of R Eliyashev without backing it up, why doesn't someone on your side bring a source. Anything at all. I have not seen a single printed source brought down here to support your side of the argument. Very suspicious, almost seems like some people glean their halachic knowledge from YWN and Matzav.

So just to recap, all I said is that there is no vadai chiyuv krisus to go on Har Habayis, as per the Rambam Tomei Mes is mutar in Machna Leviya, and all other tumos can be remedied. I even explicitly said that I hold not to go up, and don't like that people do, I'm just trying to point out a rampant am haratzus shita that going on to Har Habayis after toiveling in a maayan is not vadai kares according to virtually any shita. I never said it is mutar to go on Har Habayis.

Now if you have a printed source to contradict that I'm all ears, but to just make up halachos, whether or not you're blaming it on a specific rav or just on "poskim" is not a valid counter to my argument. Neither is just "maching up" without even making a point. So if you have something reliable and substantial please post. Otherwise what is the point?

In fact I will not be posting again in this thread until someone posts an actual source to contradict what I just wrote

[Menachem613]

As far as I can tell I'm the only one who brought sources in this argument. So instead of being vague and making up things in the name of "many poskim" or "most poskim" or in the name of R Eliyashev without backing it up, why doesn't someone on your side bring a source. Anything at all. I have not seen a single printed source brought down here to support your side of the argument. Very suspicious, almost seems like some people glean their halachic knowledge from YWN and Matzav.

So just to recap, all I said is that there is no vadai chiyuv krisus to go on Har Habayis, as per the Rambam Tomei Mes is mutar in Machna Leviya, and all other tumos can be remedied. I even explicitly said that I hold not to go up, and don't like that people do, I'm just trying to point out a rampant am haratzus shita that going on to Har Habayis after toiveling in a maayan is not vadai kares according to virtually any shita. I never said it is mutar to go on Har Habayis.

Now if you have a printed source to contradict that I'm all ears, but to just make up halachos, whether or not you're blaming it on a specific rav or just on "poskim" is not a valid counter to my argument. Neither is just "maching up" without even making a point. So if you have something reliable and substantial please post. Otherwise what is the point?

In fact I will not be posting again in this thread until someone posts an actual source to contradict what I just wrote

There you go bringing in facts and logic.