NFL Master Thread

[Yehuda57]

Without a quota I am not sure how.
As you know the ratio of minority players to head coaches is obscene.
Some outrageous ratios can be explained like why all (just about all) punters/kickers are white.

A quota will not work. I mean, technically you'll end up with more black coaches, but the league will suffer tremendously. South Africa implemented a quota system for their cricket team, and it turned one of the best teams in the world into a complete joke.

It's obvious that there is racism, I just don't know how you fix that with rules or legislation.

[Yehuda57]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1493640285892616194

So many people giving up on the NFL, it's crazy.

[CountValentine]

So many people giving up on the NFL, it's crazy.

I guess when you don't have a president using sports to pit one American against another you get different results.

[CountValentine]

There was one reason given by @yuneeq "elite coaching tree". Not sure what that means.

https://theconversation.com/why-most-nfl-head-coaches-are-white-behind-the-nfls-abysmal-record-on-diversity-174833

[CountValentine]

A quota will not work. I mean, technically you'll end up with more black coaches, but the league will suffer tremendously. South Africa implemented a quota system for their cricket team, and it turned one of the best teams in the world into a complete joke.

It's obvious that there is racism, I just don't know how you fix that with rules or legislation.

OUCH!!! You don't believe there are high quality black coaches out there?

If a quota meant taking a not highly qualified person, then I would agree with you.

[TimT]

How would you propose ending racism in the hiring process?

More rappers & dancers, of course. Duh

[CountValentine]

More rappers & dancers, of course. Duh

That only gives the optics of diversity.

[TimT]

That only gives the optics of diversity.

Glad to see you’re coming around

[CountValentine]

Glad to see you’re coming around

Coming around to what?
The NFL is racist?
Hello, where have you been?

[TimT]

Coming around to what?

Maybe the league is trying to make up for its racist hiring of head coaches?

[aygart]

OUCH!!! You don't believe there are high quality black coaches out there?

If a quota meant taking a not highly qualified person, then I would agree with you.

A quota automatically means that there is something other than qualification making the decision. I don't follow it but if there is bias in the hiring process of lower level coaching staff that can easily translate to there being fewer qualified candidates. That bias can be for bigoted or benign reasons with the same result.

[Yehuda57]

OUCH!!! You don't believe there are high quality black coaches out there?

If a quota meant taking a not highly qualified person, then I would agree with you.

No, black coaches are not worse than white coaches. And of course there are quality black coaches out there, I wanted the Giants to hire Flores! Plus you know my thoughts on racism, so you know that I didn't mean that in the slightest. Black cricket players are no worse than white players, so why does the quota system ruin South African cricket? I can't give you an answer that's proven 100%, but I can throw a few guesses out.

They end up rushing players who are still too raw, which in turn ruins their confidence when they underperform.
They don't earn the respect of their teammates because everyone knows they were a quota selection.
They don't earn their own self-respect because they know they were a quota selection.
IINM, there were instances of rushing back a player from injury to make a quota, which ended up ruining their career.


I think if racism was removed from NFL hiring, the quality of the NFL would improve because the coaches would be chosen from the best candidates, instead of only the white candidates. I don't think a quota gets you there, and clearly the Rooney rule doesn't get you there either. I can't think of a rule that would accomplish this, that's why I was asking if you could think of something.

[CountValentine]

A quota automatically means that there is something other than qualification making the decision.

100% wrong. It is "and" not "instead of".
You must believe in the best qualified BS.

[CountValentine]

No, black coaches are not worse than white coaches. And of course there are quality black coaches out there, I wanted the Giants to hire Flores! Plus you know my thoughts on racism, so you know that I didn't mean that in the slightest. Black cricket players are no worse than white players, so why does the quota system ruin South African cricket? I can't give you an answer that's proven 100%, but I can throw a few guesses out.

They end up rushing players who are still too raw, which in turn ruins their confidence when they underperform.
They don't earn the respect of their teammates because everyone knows they were a quota selection.
They don't earn their own self-respect because they know they were a quota selection.
IINM, there were instances of rushing back a player from injury to make a quota, which ended up ruining their career.


I think if racism was removed from NFL hiring, the quality of the NFL would improve because the coaches would be chosen from the best candidates, instead of only the white candidates. I don't think a quota gets you there, and clearly the Rooney rule doesn't get you there either. I can't think of a rule that would accomplish this, that's why I was asking if you could think of something.

No I did not think that was what you meant and that is why it was a question.

I have no idea what happened with the cricket team.

What I do know is if you have two qualified coaches it does not matter which one you choose. A quota would just bring in more qualified minority coaches. The problem is when quotas bring in non-qualified personal.

[CountValentine]

Going to have to start putting /r after some of my questions.

[yuneeq]

Coaches are overwhelmingly former players. What percentage of players are black vs coaches?

Fake news. Just thinking of the top coaches in the league, they weren’t players. Belicheck, Mcvay, Tomlin, Reid, Shanahan, Lafleur, etc.

And looking at minority coaches - Tomlin, Flores, Salem, Lovie Smith, and McDaniel - none of them were players.

So maybe your idea is true in other sports, but it’s certainly not true in the NFL.

[yuneeq]

There was one reason given by @yuneeq "elite coaching tree". Not sure what that means.

https://theconversation.com/why-most-nfl-head-coaches-are-white-behind-the-nfls-abysmal-record-on-diversity-174833

For example - McVay came from a good coaching tree, and already has top quality head coaches that served under him. Belichek coaches are usually garbage for other teams. There’s also a lot of family connections that certainly makes it easier to get a coveted job. Shanahan, Belicheck, and many others have family members hired as coaches.

[Yehuda57]

Fake news. Just thinking of the top coaches in the league, they weren’t players. Belicheck, Mcvay, Tomlin, Reid, Shanahan, Lafleur, etc.

And looking at minority coaches - Tomlin, Flores, Salem, Lovie Smith, and McDaniel - none of them were players.

So maybe your idea is true in other sports, but it’s certainly not true in the NFL.

The numbers fluctuate a bit every year, but offhand (I was reading a bit when the lawsuit was announced) on average 1/3 of head coaches will have played in the NFL, and more than 80% will have played college ball. 100% played in high school. Something like 70% of players are black.

[CountValentine]

For example - McVay came from a good coaching tree, and already has top quality head coaches that served under him. Belichek coaches are usually garbage for other teams. There’s also a lot of family connections that certainly makes it easier to get a coveted job. Shanahan, Belicheck, and many others have family members hired as coaches.

The good old boy network. Racism at its finest. 

[yuneeq]

The numbers fluctuate a bit every year, but offhand (I was reading a bit when the lawsuit was announced) on average 1/3 of head coaches will have played in the NFL, and more than 80% will have played college ball. 100% played in high school. Something like 70% of players are black.

IOW the ratio of black NFL players to NFL coaches is irrelevant and not a sign of racism.

The good old boy network. Racism at its finest. 

I agree it’s a good old boy network, but if that’s the finest case of racism you can find then the NFL is doing pretty swell. At the end of the day if someone you know is qualified for a job you’ll hire them over the qualified candidate that you don’t know. If you ran a private business you would hire your son if he was fully qualified. I do think that people outside the old boys network should get opportunities but it’s tough to figure out a good solution.