NFL Master Thread

[CountValentine]

Concussions and brain injuries are a humongous issue. They set up the protocols. The league is responsible to make sure the protocols are followed.

They are 100% at fault for allowing this to go on. This is not a new or unique situation. This has happened countless times. This is different because it's a high profile qb, and everyone watched him show very blatant signs of a concussion.

This was a very common talking point *before* the game. It's not like everyone is waking up now that he got his head slammed into the ground.

There are millions of talking heads on both sides.
So this injury blatant sign of a concussion and not maybe from a nerve injury?
Let's keep the tar in the pot for right now.
Good news as he is being released from the hospital and might travel back with the team.

[CountValentine]

To add, iinm, to clear concussion protocols, the player is examined by a doctor who is *not* a team employee. I would assume that makes the doctor an nfl employee. So yes, the NFL doctors are the ones that clear him.

After a player has progressed through the five-step process, and is cleared for full participation by his club physician, he must be seen and separately cleared by an Independent Neurological Consultant (INC), jointly approved by the NFL and NFLPA, who is not affiliated with any NFL club. Until cleared by this independent physician, a player may not return to contact practice or play in an NFL game.

[yuneeq]

The way Miami has dealt with Tua is criminal, and I mean that in the literal sense. Absolutely disgusting

What ever happened to personal responsibility? It's also very likely Miami followed the NFL's concussion protocol.

The NFL has strict protocols, but IINM they are reliant on team doctors to generate the data on the injury, recovery, and status within the protocol. I believe the data is reviewed by the league if they feel it wasn't adhered to, and that review has resulted in teams being fined for failures in the protocol.

https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1574107959659040771

It's not hard to believe that Tua passed protocol. The fact he exhibited symptoms before he was checked out does not mean he could not play. No 2 head injuries are the same. Some people may seem to be completely fine at the time of injury and pass all the tests and only begin to experience major effects weeks later.

What he exhibited tonight looked a lot more horrific and was a textbook concussion, specifically the fencing response.

[Lurker]

What ever happened to personal responsibility? It's also very likely Miami followed the NFL's concussion protocol.

https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1574107959659040771/photo/1

It's not hard to believe that Tua passed protocol. The fact he exhibited symptoms before he was checked out does not mean he could not play. No 2 head injuries are the same. Some people may seem to be completely fine at the time of injury and pass all the tests and only begin to experience major effects weeks later.

What he exhibited tonight looked a lot more horrific and was a textbook concussion, specifically the fencing response.

That's all great on paper, and yet teams have still been caught and fined for messing with the protocol.

As for personal responsibility, if your employee gets an injury and swears he's fine to drive the forklift or use the deli slicer or do any other hazardous work for you, you're not just letting him do it and saying, "personal responsibility."

[CountValentine]

What ever happened to personal responsibility? It's also very likely Miami followed the NFL's concussion protocol.

The protocols in place are to take the decision out of the players hands.

[CountValentine]

What is everyone's response going to be if he is cleared to play a week from Sunday. Let's get those responses on the record now!!! 

[Yehuda57]

There are millions of talking heads on both sides.
So this injury blatant sign of a concussion and not maybe from a nerve injury?
Let's keep the tar in the pot for right now.
Good news as he is being released from the hospital and might travel back with the team.

You're making as if this is an isolated incident with two sides of the story. This is a debacle going on for decades with loads of dead bodies and irreversibly damaged brains. There is no other side of this story.

What ever happened to personal responsibility? It's also very likely Miami followed the NFL's concussion protocol.

https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1574107959659040771

It's not hard to believe that Tua passed protocol. The fact he exhibited symptoms before he was checked out does not mean he could not play. No 2 head injuries are the same. Some people may seem to be completely fine at the time of injury and pass all the tests and only begin to experience major effects weeks later.

What he exhibited tonight looked a lot more horrific and was a textbook concussion, specifically the fencing response.

Of course he passed the protocols. That's the point, they're a sham, just as they've always been. And now we all see it playing out. Sorry for singling out Miami. I should have included the whole league.

Personal responsibility is a factor, no doubt, but the pressure on players to tough out injuries and play no matter what is insane.

[Yehuda57]

What is everyone's response going to be if he is cleared to play a week from Sunday. Let's get those responses on the record now!!! 

I think it's already shady that he's being released from hospital

[Euclid]

What is everyone's response going to be if he is cleared to play a week from Sunday. Let's get those responses on the record now!!! 

My response is that I'll continue not following a league where players are literally risking their lives. Forget about the morality of it, it's just not interesting to me - I want to watch players perform athletic feats, not some sort of weird gladiators-lite sport.

[CountValentine]

You're making as if this is an isolated incident with two sides of the story.

I am talking if he should have played tonight or not. We need to wait for the report.
Remember this isn't going to be one side talking. You have the union that is not going to lay down.

[Yehuda57]

I am talking if he should have played tonight or not. We need to wait for the report.
Remember this isn't going to be one side talking. You have the union that is not going to lay down.

Because the union has a long storied history of ensuring player safety.

[CountValentine]

Because the union has a long storied history of ensuring player safety.

They push changes to make the game safer. It is a violent game, and they understand that.

[Lurker]

They push changes to make [their members as much money as possible, which sometimes coincides with making] the game safer[, when it elongates players' careers]. It is a violent game, and they [players don't usually fully] understand [the long-term ramifications of] that.

FTFM

[yuneeq]

The protocols in place are to take the decision out of the players hands.

Agreed. I believe they followed protocol, and at that point it's in the players hands.

Of course he passed the protocols. That's the point, they're a sham, just as they've always been. And now we all see it playing out. Sorry for singling out Miami. I should have included the whole league.

Personal responsibility is a factor, no doubt, but the pressure on players to tough out injuries and play no matter what is insane.

I don't think anyone will claim the protocols are perfect but they aren't a sham. They can't be perfect because in 2022 the medical field still doesn't know enough about diagnosing concussions. There are plenty of plays that look terrible but don't cause any short/long term harm.

If they pressured the player, it will get uncovered. I doubt they are that stupid and reckless though. These are athletes in their prime that don't know how to quit. I don't blame them, the team or anyone. It's an unfortunate accident that is a known risk of playing the sport.

[yuneeq]

Here's a famous concussion video when things were taken less seriously  -

"That famous goal from Game 6 against the Devils is the most widely known concussion, except by Kariya himself. Speaking to TSN years after retiring, in 2017, the former star noted that he had no memory of the hit, returning to the game, or scoring arguably his most famous goal."

Link

Kariya comes back a few minutes later from a hit that was 10x harder than what Tua experienced, and was seemingly coherent enough to score a huge goal in the stanley cup final. While we now know a lot more about concussions, head injuries are still a mysterious beast.

[herb]

My response is that I'll continue not following a league where players are literally risking their lives. Forget about the morality of it, it's just not interesting to me - I want to watch players perform athletic feats, not some sort of weird gladiators-lite sport.

you don't think players are performing athletic feats on almost every down?!

[Yehuda57]

Agreed. I believe they followed protocol, and at that point it's in the players hands.

I don't think anyone will claim the protocols are perfect but they aren't a sham. They can't be perfect because in 2022 the medical field still doesn't know enough about diagnosing concussions. There are plenty of plays that look terrible but don't cause any short/long term harm.

If they pressured the player, it will get uncovered. I doubt they are that stupid and reckless though. These are athletes in their prime that don't know how to quit. I don't blame them, the team or anyone. It's an unfortunate accident that is a known risk of playing the sport.

That's the whole thing. I'm sure Tua was the leading voice in pressuring the doctors to clear him. And he probably knows how to answer the questions to avoid getting a concussion diagnosis. But even a boxing ref would not have allowed him to continue after *twice* trying to stagger to his feet.

Yes, there's a lot of unknown, but with everything that *is* known, Tua should have been sidelined.

[CountValentine]

Yes, there's a lot of unknown, but with everything that *is* known, Tua should have been sidelined.

Thats the whole point. Your position is based on the unknown.

[yeshivabucher]

Thats the whole point. Your position is based on the unknown.

the point is that given the unknowns of the situation they should have played it safe

[yuneeq]

the point is that given the unknowns of the situation they should have played it safe

In that case get rid of the protocol and just yank players indefinitely if they may have suffered a concussion. Not gonna happen, both the league and the players will never consent to that.