Author Topic: NFL Master Thread  (Read 264998 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #800 on: December 18, 2017, 01:39:47 PM »
How many times can I tell you the problem isn't the call, it's the rule. It's stupid, stupid, stupid. Has been stupid for years. Everyone complains about it. It's easy to fix. But the NFL in its hubris lets this nonsense of us arguing where some no name tight end's toe nail was because all the star players were injured continue.
They stop trying to say it was a catch.
He catches the ball, feet in the air. Foot 1 lands. Knee 1 lands. Foot 2 lands. Ball crosses the plane. Elbow lands. Ball hits the ground and comes out.

That's 3 ways he established possession.

Two feet landing without the ball bobbling is the same thing as taking two steps.

According to the rule it was 100% clear it was not a catch. If you want to argue the rule needs to change that is fair and go for it.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #801 on: December 18, 2017, 01:42:18 PM »
They stop trying to say it was a catch. According to the rule it was 100% clear it was not a catch. If you want to argue the rule needs to change that is fair and go for it.
Look upthread. I've been clear throughout. Again, had a pats player knocked the ball out instead of the ground he would have been a runner and it would have been a td.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #802 on: December 18, 2017, 01:50:44 PM »
Look upthread. I've been clear throughout. Again, had a pats player knocked the ball out instead of the ground he would have been a runner and it would have been a td.
Again you are wrong. On a catch he has to establish possession. If he was a runner as you suggest the minute a player touches him would be ruled down (knee touching) so impossible to fumble.
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Offline oiseli48

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #803 on: December 18, 2017, 02:29:04 PM »
Look upthread. I've been clear throughout. Again, had a pats player knocked the ball out instead of the ground he would have been a runner and it would have been a td.

I disagree. Because he was in the motion of falling to the ground, until he finishes landing with clear possession it's not a catch. This is based on the current rule, not feelings of what the rule should be.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #804 on: December 18, 2017, 02:33:23 PM »
I disagree. Because he was in the motion of falling to the ground, until he finishes landing with clear possession it's not a catch. This is based on the current rule, not feelings of what the rule should be.
Finally someone who understands the rule as written!!!
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Offline Amusch

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #805 on: December 18, 2017, 02:41:58 PM »
Finally someone who understands the rule as written!!!

I saw right away (first replay) that it wasn't going to last. I was surprised Romo (of all ppl) didn't see it sooner and thought review was about crossing the plane. I also agree that the rules have become absurd and we should all just count down until pitchers and catchers. I mean, just 3 hours later, same situation, team driving for a TD down 3 in final minute, and the QB fumbles the ball out of bounds. If it goes out at the 1 yard line, then its Oak ball and they tie or win. Since the ball hangs in, crosses the pylon, and then goes out, it's the other team's ball. What!?!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #806 on: December 18, 2017, 02:49:24 PM »
Since the ball hangs in, crosses the pylon, and then goes out, it's the other team's ball. What!?!
Didn't see the play but that's the rule, correct?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #807 on: December 18, 2017, 03:09:11 PM »
Again you are wrong. On a catch he has to establish possession. If he was a runner as you suggest the minute a player touches him would be ruled down (knee touching) so impossible to fumble.

I disagree. Because he was in the motion of falling to the ground, until he finishes landing with clear possession it's not a catch. This is based on the current rule, not feelings of what the rule should be.

The rule is saying that the only reason he didn't establish possession was because he fumbled it when going to ground.

But let's say he didn't lose the ball as his arm slammed into the ground. Instead, a pats plats poked the ball out of his hand, as his elbow and forearm were on the grass. What would be the din? The entire "Fumbled while going to the ground" idea is erased, as that never happened. So we would look to see if he establishes possession before the forced fumble. He gets a knee, two feet and a forearm down in bounds. He established possession. We would then say the ball crossed the plane before the forced fumble and it is a touchdown.

In other words, landing on the ground and fumbling RETROACTIVELY undid the catch. That is incredibly stupid.


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #808 on: December 18, 2017, 03:15:13 PM »
You are missing the point or maybe I am.  :)
He caught the ball while going to the ground. It doesn't matter how the ball comes out.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #809 on: December 18, 2017, 03:31:27 PM »
You are missing the point or maybe I am.  :)
He caught the ball while going to the ground. It doesn't matter how the ball comes out.
To you, it to the rules as written?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #810 on: December 18, 2017, 03:34:43 PM »
To you, it to the rules as written?
Not following.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #811 on: December 18, 2017, 03:39:37 PM »
Not following.
The 'it' was supposed to say 'or'.

He's arguing that in this scenario, the rules say he has to control it to the ground. But if the ball had been knocked loose by another player instead of the ground, there would be no such requirement, and we'd only be looking at whether he caught it and was down (the knee) before it was knocked loose.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #812 on: December 18, 2017, 03:43:08 PM »
The it was supposed to say or.

He's arguing that in this scenario, the rules say he has to control it to the ground. But if the ball had been knocked loose by another player instead of the ground, there would be no such requirement, and we'd only be looking at whether he caught it and was down (the knee) before it was knocked loose.
The rule is catching the ball while going to the ground. So it doesn't matter how the ball came out. Now if took some steps that would be a different story.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #813 on: December 18, 2017, 03:54:43 PM »
The rule is catching the ball while going to the ground. So it doesn't matter how the ball came out. Now if took some steps that would be a different story.
If both feet are in the air who cares how they happen to land or if he was on the way up or down? If dragging two toes is the same as taking steps, why not this?

If a receiver gets the ball knocked out after getting 2 feet down, it is a fumble, we don't care what direction he was going.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #814 on: December 18, 2017, 04:01:54 PM »
If a receiver gets the ball knocked out after getting 2 feet down, it is a fumble, we don't care what direction he was going.
No its not a fumble. That is what you are missing. Getting two feet down means he was in the air when making the catch and has to establish possession. It would be incomplete. Don't shoot the messenger.  :)
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Offline elit

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #815 on: December 18, 2017, 04:03:43 PM »
The rule is saying that the only reason he didn't establish possession was because he fumbled it when going to ground.

But let's say he didn't lose the ball as his arm slammed into the ground. Instead, a pats plats poked the ball out of his hand, as his elbow and forearm were on the grass. What would be the din? The entire "Fumbled while going to the ground" idea is erased, as that never happened. So we would look to see if he establishes possession before the forced fumble. He gets a knee, two feet and a forearm down in bounds. He established possession. We would then say the ball crossed the plane before the forced fumble and it is a touchdown.

In other words, landing on the ground and fumbling RETROACTIVELY undid the catch. That is incredibly stupid.
been yelling about that rule all year.  haven't heard any rational explanation for it. and it has ruined so many games this year.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #816 on: December 18, 2017, 04:05:39 PM »
been yelling about that rule all year.  haven't heard any rational explanation for it. and it has ruined so many games this year.
So how would you change it? You have to have possession for x amount of time?
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Offline elit

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #817 on: December 18, 2017, 04:11:32 PM »
So how would you change it? You have to have possession for x amount of time?
want referring to that play... but once you asked I would see complete control of the ball and land

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #818 on: December 18, 2017, 04:14:16 PM »
want referring to that play... but once you asked I would see complete control of the ball and land
So basically the ground can't cause a fumble? That is what I am leaning to.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: NFL Master Thread
« Reply #819 on: December 23, 2017, 11:33:40 PM »
Is this the game that brings victory to the Browns?
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