Author Topic: NFL Master Thread (Read 268100 times)

S209 · « **Reply #1100 on:** January 16, 2019, 02:43:46 PM »

Quote from: Amusch on January 16, 2019, 01:59:13 PM

I've always loved him for his calm demeanor, his consistently above average performance, and his nearly unprecedented durability. No doubt the Giants will miss all 3 in the near future. But never did I think he deserved to be in the HoF.
This is not an absolute rule, but for the most part, QBs in today's day and age that belong in the HoF are the ones whose teams you know should win 9-10 games or more every year, regardless of any other details you have on the team (i.e. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, maybe Luck (soon enough) & Big Ben, not so much Eli, Romo, Flacco, Stafford, Ryan, etc). Again, it's not a hard rule, but to me works more often than not.

I think this was consistently true of Ryan, and even this year, he put up really phenomenal numbers, despite the many issues ATL had. Don't forget he won an MVP and made it to a Super Bowl and WOULD have won, if not for the greatest collapse in history. Not an excuse for him, I'm just saying his regular season credentials put Eli's to shame, and I don't think he's going to end up a HOFer anytime soon, unless he actually takes home a ring or two before he finishes.

Another guy you missed is Russell Wilson, once again one of the most underrated QBs now and ever. I'd put him there alot faster than Luck.

Sammyonetwo · « **Reply #1101 on:** January 18, 2019, 12:46:17 AM »

Back on Eli Manning I do u understand why non giants fans hate him and say he at best average, because he has been during most of his career.

But the HOF is meant for players who were special.

And Eli Manning when it matter most was beyond elite and done crazy special stuff more then Peyton and 99 percent of qb.

So it that category he’s better then Peyton who only got his Second ring from his defense not because he made any special plays.

Now I can’t say that should get you in the HOF but it definitely gets you in a storybook of special QB of all time.

Sammyonetwo · « **Reply #1102 on:** January 18, 2019, 12:51:59 AM »

In 20 years someone wants to see the best catches in history they will see mankind 3 times OBJ tyree manningham. Best comebacks they’ll see Manning, best upset they see Manning. Most yards touchdown they see Manning mist cluch QB which matters most they see Manning, most super bowls winning QB they see Eli most super bowl MVP they see Manning, roadpayoofs team to win a super bowl Manning again, most starts Manning there more not gonna bore you but then they ask who is t this guy in the HOF.

And that’s a good question

Proisrael · « **Reply #1103 on:** January 18, 2019, 01:49:23 AM »

Quote from: Sammyonetwo on January 18, 2019, 12:51:59 AM

In 20 years someone wants to see the best catches in history they will see mankind 3 times OBJ tyree manningham. Best comebacks they’ll see Manning, best upset they see Manning. Most yards touchdown they see Manning mist cluch QB which matters most they see Manning, most super bowls winning QB they see Eli most super bowl MVP they see Manning, roadpayoofs team to win a super bowl Manning again, most starts Manning there more not gonna bore you but then they ask who is t this guy in the HOF.

And that’s a good question

Comebacks were tied to stunning catches, Kapernick could've been throwing the balls and they were gonna have the same chances to get caught. Eli in the system and players around him did horrible. If you took a legit QB like Luck/Ryan etc.. They wouldve been unstoppable. Manning has blown more games then coming in clutch. Oh Yeah I hate the Giants.

S209 · « **Reply #1104 on:** January 18, 2019, 09:38:48 AM »

Quote from: Sammyonetwo on January 18, 2019, 12:51:59 AM

In 20 years someone wants to see the best catches in history they will see mankind 3 times OBJ tyree manningham. Best comebacks they’ll see Manning, best upset they see Manning. Most yards touchdown they see Manning mist cluch QB which matters most they see Manning, most super bowls winning QB they see Eli most super bowl MVP they see Manning, roadpayoofs team to win a super bowl Manning again, most starts Manning there more not gonna bore you but then they ask who is t this guy in the HOF.

And that’s a good question

I'm not going to lie, I didn't fully understand everything you said. But some of the things you named are the arguments against him. He was saved by players around him, he was always playing from behind etc... these are not things elite QBs need, only subpar QBs with miraculous runs/games

Moshe26 · « **Reply #1105 on:** January 18, 2019, 09:46:04 AM »

Quote from: S209 on January 18, 2019, 09:38:48 AM

I'm not going to lie, I didn't fully understand everything you said. But some of the things you named are the arguments against him. He was saved by players around him, he was always playing from behind etc... these are not things elite QBs need, only subpar QBs with miraculous runs/games

at the end of the day he brought NY 2 ring and they were against arguably the best QB to ever play the game.
if Eli would've accomplished what he accomplished in other lower tier market i dont think he would've even been considered to make the HOF.

S209 · « **Reply #1106 on:** January 18, 2019, 09:50:01 AM »

Quote from: Moshe26 on January 18, 2019, 09:46:04 AM

at the end of the day he brought NY 2 ring and they were against arguably the best QB to ever play the game.
if Eli would've accomplished what he accomplished in other lower tier market i dont think he would've even been considered to make the HOF.

But again, while that's beautiful and amazing, it's 2 games. You ~~don't~~ shouldn't get into the HOF for 2 games, you should get in for a career, and his career sucked.

Yes, I agree he'll probably get in, unfortunately.

skyguy918 · « **Reply #1107 on:** January 18, 2019, 09:57:19 AM »

Quote from: S209 on January 18, 2019, 09:38:48 AM

I'm not going to lie, I didn't fully understand everything you said. But some of the things you named are the arguments against him. He was saved by players around him, he was always playing from behind etc... these are not things elite QBs need, only subpar QBs with miraculous runs/games

You're really reaching to twist actual positives into negatives, and if someone really wanted they could do something similar to a guy like Brady or Peyton.

While it's sometimes true that a spectacular catch is the result of the WR making an amazing play off a terrible throw, most of the iconic ones involved amazing play from both the QB and WR. The Tyree throw itself wasn't special, but getting loose to be able to throw it was. The Manningham throw was spectacular in and of itself. OBJ has obviously made something out of nothing in a lot of his highlight reel catches, but there are plenty of great throws in there too. Would you say that Eli needed to be 'saved' by his skill players way more than Brady and Peyton? Of course. Probably even more than the average QB. But that doesn't take away from the iconic nature of some of these plays, which boost his candidacy. You can argue that that boost may be undeserved, but it's a reality that it will help him when it comes HOF voting time.

And your point about playing from behind is ridiculous. Brady is absolutely gets a ton of credit - and rightfully so - for how no lead felt safe from him. Does the fact that his team fell behind in the first place take anything away from that? Of course not. Same for Eli. Coming from behind has has more to do with how well you start vs how well you finish and also how well your defense is playing. It's certainly not a knock on a player on its own.

Moshe26 · « **Reply #1108 on:** January 18, 2019, 10:56:06 AM »

Quote from: S209 on January 18, 2019, 09:50:01 AM

But again, while that's beautiful and amazing, it's 2 games. You ~~don't~~ shouldn't get into the HOF for 2 games, you should get in for a career, and his career sucked.

Yes, I agree he'll probably get in, unfortunately.

i dont think he sucked his entire career- true last few years have been dreadful but you cant put all the blame on him- the OL has been shameful.

Amusch · « **Reply #1109 on:** January 18, 2019, 11:32:56 AM »

I agree about the catches and comebacks, but come on? Road playoff victories? That's for teams that went 9-7 and have 2-3 road games, as opposed to Brady who can count on a few fingers how many road playoff games he's played before the conf championship over more than a decade. Plus, how about 0? As in, 0 playoff wins outside of those 2 SB seasons. Now, that's a big "outside of," agreed, but if in a 14 year career, you either miss the playoffs or go one and done in 12/14, and have an all-time W-L record (which is very diff from pitching W/L, as above) just 2 games above .500, it's hard to call him an easy HoF'er, and that's from a Giants and Eli fan.