Author Topic: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel  (Read 62311 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2015, 06:54:33 PM »
Unless they just don't want to be bothered by every random kashrus startup
That. Would you?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shimino1

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2015, 07:10:53 PM »
That. Would you?
If it made a difference to my business, I would.
BTW the owner of Kiara and Shyan is the one that reached out to KFI after he saw a big dip in customers following a shiur by one of the KFI rabanim mentioning the kashrus problems there. 

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2015, 09:12:56 PM »
If it made a difference to my business, I would.
BTW the owner of Kiara and Shyan is the one that reached out to KFI after he saw a big dip in customers following a shiur by one of the KFI rabanim mentioning the kashrus problems there.
Of course. Whether that happens to a random place without known issues remains to be seen. As such if I were a business owner who already pays a hechsher to ensure that my kashrus is up to par why would I want someone else poking around in my kitchen who can only cause problems. That is what happened with the first restaurants. They let someone poke around who started making problems by publicizing supposed issues. Now they have an extra headache. An owner who does not let them in does not mean he has something to hide. I would not want to let them in either because it would make running my kitchen difficult. Only with threats of telling everyone that I am giving something and other mafia tactics would force me to.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2015, 02:35:57 AM »


They let someone poke around who started making problems by publicizing supposed issues.
When will it stop being"supposed" issues?  The owner agreed yet your still in denial?

Offline sky121

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2015, 03:33:18 AM »
So basically when all is said and done an establishment having a hechsher in Israel really doesn't mean anything?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2015, 03:34:39 AM »
So basically when all is said and done an establishment having a hechsher in Israel really doesn't mean anything?
Shortened version: incorrect

Offline Tuna Baygel

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2015, 07:03:47 AM »
Of course. Whether that happens to a random place without known issues remains to be seen. As such if I were a business owner who already pays a hechsher to ensure that my kashrus is up to par why would I want someone else poking around in my kitchen who can only cause problems. That is what happened with the first restaurants. They let someone poke around who started making problems by publicizing supposed issues. Now they have an extra headache. An owner who does not let them in does not mean he has something to hide. I would not want to let them in either because it would make running my kitchen difficult. Only with threats of telling everyone that I am giving something and other mafia tactics would force me to.
Do you keep Kosher?

If yes why don't you take it seriously?

If a restaurant did not let the health inspector in to the kitchen would you also say he has nothing to hide and doesn't wasn't someone in his kitchen "who can only cause problems"

As an orthodox Jew I have never eaten in a Non-Kosher establishment. I pay more for my food from groceries to restaurants for one reason and one reason only, to make sure that that the kashrus that I strongly keep to are up to par.

You cannot understand the frustration finding out that a restaurant that I love and have been many times did not allow a Rov into their kitchens because it can only cause problems

Thats why I support KFI

Offline elya

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2015, 07:16:36 AM »
So basically when all is said and done an establishment having a hechsher in Israel really doesn't mean anything?
Well obviously that's gonna depend on which hashgacha your referring to.

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2015, 08:56:18 AM »
When will it stop being"supposed" issues?  The owner agreed yet your still in denial?

I never heard of the restaurant or the issues to admit or deny them.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #89 on: February 12, 2015, 09:02:31 AM »
I never heard of the restaurant or the issues to admit or deny them.
so WTH are you spewing like you know?
That is what happened with the first restaurants. They let someone poke around who started making problems by publicizing supposed issues. Now they have an extra headache.

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2015, 09:06:09 AM »
Do you keep Kosher?

If yes why don't you take it seriously?
I will ignore the inuendo and leave it that taking kashrus seriously does not need to mean creating a mafia but instead relying on good hechsherim. If the hechsher is good then the mafia is unneeded and if it is no good then it won't help.
If a restaurant did not let the health inspector in to the kitchen would you also say he has nothing to hide and doesn't wasn't someone in his kitchen "who can only cause problems"
VERY bad analogy. How about this case. Let's take an establishment which passed all health inspections perfectly and hired its own outside health consultant as well which also certifies the wholesomeness of the establishment. They are now approached by a group of health freaks who say let us check out your kitchen and poke in when we want to. We will then give you a list of things to fix and if you don't fix them we will publicize that your food causes cancer. If you don't let us in we will say that you must have something to hide.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2015, 09:07:18 AM »
so WTH are you spewing like you know?
I am purely replying to what has been presented in this thread.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Tuna Baygel

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2015, 01:19:35 PM »
I will ignore the inuendo and leave it that taking kashrus seriously does not need to mean creating a mafia but instead relying on good hechsherim. If the hechsher is good then the mafia is unneeded and if it is no good then it won't help.VERY bad analogy. How about this case. Let's take an establishment which passed all health inspections perfectly and hired its own outside health consultant as well which also certifies the wholesomeness of the establishment. They are now approached by a group of health freaks who say let us check out your kitchen and poke in when we want to. We will then give you a list of things to fix and if you don't fix them we will publicize that your food causes cancer. If you don't let us in we will say that you must have something to hide.
"Very bad analogy"
You are comparing a group that will spread that a certain restaurants food causes cancer and a group that tells their people to be carful and which restaurants they approve of

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2015, 02:43:50 PM »
"Very bad analogy"
You are comparing a group that will spread that a certain restaurants food causes cancer and a group that tells their people to be carful and which restaurants they approve of

WHich do you consider worse.

My point is that there is already a hechsher. THEY ARE INSPECTED. You are asking them to pile more inspections over that and end up with too many cooks spoiling the broth.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sky121

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2015, 02:47:20 PM »
Hechshers needing more hechshers?
And who is going to watch over KFI?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2015, 02:51:01 PM »
Hechshers needing more hechshers?
And who is going to watch over KFI?
They claim not to be a hasgacha they are alerting you and you decide

Offline SamKey

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2015, 03:35:26 PM »
Mr. Aygart: FWIU They are taking restaurants with lower hashgachos that are not reliable on their own and reporting on specific locations that the actual Mashgiach is reliable and letting you know what Hashgachos the ingredients are under.
P.S. Before I get flack, yes, there are many issues with "Aguda"

Offline aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2015, 03:43:04 PM »
Mr. Aygart: FWIU They are taking restaurants with lower hashgachos that are not reliable on their own and reporting on specific locations that the actual Mashgiach is reliable and letting you know what Hashgachos the ingredients are under.
P.S. Before I get flack, yes, there are many issues with "Aguda"
So if the ingredients were good when they were inspected you would eat by them even though they have a sub-par hechsher? That is what this is for?
Do you keep Kosher?

If yes why don't you take it seriously?
Also, that isn't the way this has been presented in this thread.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Let3

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2015, 04:35:02 PM »
Fwiu this whole thing came across mainly because us Americans don't seem to really know which hechsherim are great and "sub-par" as you called it.
Any many of us have been eating in certain places under certain hechsherim after "hearing from reliable sources" that it is ok.
When a rav was asked by Talmidim about going to sheyan/Keyara (where most ppl went until recently) , he decided to actually check it out before telling him it was ok... There was no intention at that point to make any "hechsher" out of it.
The problem was that they didnt let him in the kitchen and othe problems he found after speaking to te mashgiach. Again, He wasn't going in as new "hechsher" to find problems- he was going in as a guy trying to check out a place before eating there, asking te regular questions we all should be asking wherever we go!
That's how this whole KFI started- Fwiu (after speaking to the rav himself) .

He decided that even after we "heard" from OUR Rabanim which hechsherim are ok to eat- not always do they keep to their own written standards unfortunately... So the KFI is there to inform us that/if they are...

I hope I made some sense with what I wrote ...
It's getting real frustrating watching ppl that don't know anything about any of this comment on it...

Offline SamKey

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #99 on: February 12, 2015, 04:56:13 PM »
So if the ingredients were good when they were inspected you would eat by them even though they have a sub-par Hechsher?
If the Mahgiach was reliable? 100% I would eat at the WA, which has only a Rabanut, because I was told that the Masgiach is reliable and the ingredients are good.
(Normally I wouldn't touch Rabanut with a 10ft pole)