Author Topic: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel  (Read 62104 times)

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2015, 03:13:40 AM »
Sheyan hasn't changed their kashrus in years. Sounds more like they upgraded themselves by paying a protection charge to a mafia.

I don't know the details of this story but I get suspicious when someone won't identify himself by his name but only by the title Rabbi. Being a respectable figure is like being a lady - if you have to tell people you're a lady you're probably not.
Don't go ahead with "matter of fact" reporting on sheyans kashrus and then go on to state you don't know the story

Leave that for FM

Offline Tuna Baygel

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 07:30:25 AM »
sounds like another kosher tax to me
Where does it say that resturants have to pay for this service?

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 07:38:37 AM »
Where does it say that resturants have to pay for this service?
i was under the impression they dont

Offline Tuna Baygel

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 07:43:25 AM »
i was under the impression they dont
Me too
sounds like another kosher tax to me
What's he referring to?

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2015, 07:48:43 AM »
What's he referring to?
sounds like a voice from he peanut gallery

Offline MosheD

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 07:48:58 AM »
i was under the impression they dont




But sof sof KFI is basically another free hechsher

Ftfm
I guess that's not so bad - it's a governing board for all other hechsheirim

Offline moish

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2015, 07:54:47 AM »
Sheyan hasn't changed their kashrus in years. Sounds more like they upgraded themselves by paying a protection charge to a mafia.

I don't know the details of this story but I get suspicious when someone won't identify himself by his name but only by the title Rabbi. Being a respectable figure is like being a lady - if you have to tell people you're a lady you're probably not.
From what I understand, Sheyan was using triangle k ingredients (many of the asian ingredients in israel are triangle k) and i heard that Keyara might have been using regular rabbanut lamb chops. KFI wouldnt approve of them until they kashered their kitchen.

As far as not identifying themselves, this is what R' Kuber had to say.

Mordechai Kuber
January 29, 2015 - 14:33 | Permalink
You are all correct that it is better if the Rabbanim would publicize their names. But one must understand that the culture here is not exactly American live-and-let-live. It is not impossible for a restaurateur who is losing business because he refuses to raise his standards to express his dissatisfaction in a hostile way. So we must respect the Rabbanim for taking the time and expending the effort to address a problem that is significant, even if they do not feel like dying a martyr’s death.
I know the Rabbanim involved, and they are all serious talmidei chachamim, with modest kashrus experience between them. Although I am not officially a member of KFI, they consult me on all kashrus matters. I believe that they have managed to establish high standards without getting involved in the politics of hashgachos, for which they are to be commended. They will be publishing their standards very soon, and the names of the first two restaurants who have met those standards, and the details of the kashrus there.
I realize that it would be great if they could already be at the finish line. But this is a work in progress, and they have moved forward patiently and with great attention to detail.
In the words of a great man long departed, “You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.” Slowly and patiently this job will get done, and our community will finally have the opportunity to confidently eat out without guesswork and blissful ignorance. It is long in coming, and just a little more patience and some thoughtful understanding will get us to the finish line.

Offline shimino1

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2015, 09:17:29 AM »
From what I understand, Sheyan was using triangle k ingredients (many of the asian ingredients in israel are triangle k) and i heard that Keyara might have been using regular rabbanut lamb chops. KFI wouldnt approve of them until they kashered their kitchen.

As far as not identifying themselves, this is what R' Kuber had to say.

Mordechai Kuber
January 29, 2015 - 14:33 | Permalink
You are all correct that it is better if the Rabbanim would publicize their names. But one must understand that the culture here is not exactly American live-and-let-live. It is not impossible for a restaurateur who is losing business because he refuses to raise his standards to express his dissatisfaction in a hostile way. So we must respect the Rabbanim for taking the time and expending the effort to address a problem that is significant, even if they do not feel like dying a martyr’s death.
I know the Rabbanim involved, and they are all serious talmidei chachamim, with modest kashrus experience between them. Although I am not officially a member of KFI, they consult me on all kashrus matters. I believe that they have managed to establish high standards without getting involved in the politics of hashgachos, for which they are to be commended. They will be publishing their standards very soon, and the names of the first two restaurants who have met those standards, and the details of the kashrus there.
I realize that it would be great if they could already be at the finish line. But this is a work in progress, and they have moved forward patiently and with great attention to detail.
In the words of a great man long departed, “You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.” Slowly and patiently this job will get done, and our community will finally have the opportunity to confidently eat out without guesswork and blissful ignorance. It is long in coming, and just a little more patience and some thoughtful understanding will get us to the finish line.
+1

Offline incendia

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2015, 09:19:32 AM »
What's he referring to?

sounds like a voice from he peanut gallery

My comment represents my general mistrust of the kasharus industry, and the undue financial burden that it puts on the jewish public

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2015, 09:20:42 AM »
My comment represents my general mistrust of the kasharus industry, and the undue financial burden that it puts on the jewish public
And who do you think is to blame?

Offline moish

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2015, 09:23:55 AM »
My comment represents my general mistrust of the kasharus industry, and the undue financial burden that it puts on the jewish public
right, because a mashgiach sitting in a restauarant doesnt charge for his time

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2015, 09:24:24 AM »
My comment represents my general mistrust of the kasharus industry, and the undue financial burden that it puts on the jewish public
I think that if you would go through real numbers you would find that it doesn't place the burden you think and that what it does isn't as undue as you think
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2015, 09:24:51 AM »
i was under the impression they dont yet
FTFY
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2015, 09:25:53 AM »

Offline Menachem613

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2015, 09:26:14 AM »

sounds like another kosher tax to me

Possibly. But they are catering to the wants of the people. Can't blame them.

Offline shimino1

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2015, 09:26:55 AM »
Sheyan hasn't changed their kashrus in years. Sounds more like they upgraded themselves by paying a protection charge to a mafia.

I don't know the details of this story but I get suspicious when someone won't identify himself by his name but only by the title Rabbi.
They haven't changed the Hashgacha but they have changed some of the following: The Hachshrim they allow into the store, the way the Mashgiach and staff operate, the way they Kasher liver, the way certain products are marked and stored, the way vegetables are washed and checked, the amount of time there is a Mashgiach in the kitchen, etc'

See the difference?

Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2015, 09:29:25 AM »
They haven't changed the Hashgacha but they have changed some of the following: The Hachshrim they allow into the store, the way the Mashgiach and staff operate, the way they Kasher liver, the way certain products are marked and stored, the way vegetables are washed and checked, the amount of time there is a Mashgiach in the kitchen, etc'

See the difference?
How is that not changing it?

Offline moish

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2015, 09:36:34 AM »
How is that not changing it?
hashgacha as in supervising agency

Offline incendia

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2015, 09:49:19 AM »
And who do you think is to blame?
I know my answer wont satisfy you but the short answer is "the rabbis"
I think that many rabbis (even without realizing they are doing so) enrich and empower themselves and their colleagues by pushing stricter and stricter standards.  I think that the system is rigged that only 'rabbis' that push a chumradik agenda can come to any real power.  I think that this corruption is not only in kasharus but in gayrus, stznus and many other areas of everyday jewish life.

as an example I dont believe there has been any major leniency in kasharus since Chalov stam, and from what I've heard r' Moshe's sons have distanced them selves from that ruling.

I think that there is no true jewish leadership



Offline Emkay

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Re: KFI - Kashrus Watchdog in Israel
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2015, 09:51:30 AM »
I know my answer wont satisfy you but the short answer is "the rabbis"
I think that many rabbis (even without realizing they are doing so) enrich and empower themselves and their colleagues by pushing stricter and stricter standards.  I think that the system is rigged that only 'rabbis' that push a chumradik agenda can come to any real power.  I think that this corruption is not only in kasharus but in gayrus, stznus and many other areas of everyday jewish life.

as an example I dont believe there has been any major leniency in kasharus since Chalov stam, and from what I've heard r' Moshe's sons have distanced them selves from that ruling.

I think that there is no true jewish leadership
No comment on your statement but based on what you wrote I'm confident I can pick you out of a lineup any day