Topic Wiki

Creation vs. Evolution

Creation

  • Evolutionary theory rests on precepts set out by old, obsolete book written over a hundred years ago
  • Scientifically corroborated by numerous peer-reviewed Facebook posts
  • Banana flawlessly designed for use as fake phone
  • Bible verses about molecular mutation and generational metamorphosis in allele frequencies clearly allegorical
  • Nine electoral votes in Alabama
  • Results of natural selection experiments have only been reproduced a few thousand times in a laboratory
  • Archaeopteryx way too awesome to have evolved into shitty birds of today
  • Far easier to understand than evolution


Evolution

  • Personal feud with God
  • Saw frog evolve from pollywog
  • Distinct morphological similarities between ancient Neanderthal and Trent
  • Nice to think we actually distantly related to family dog
  • Want to see how much more upright next figure in evolutionary chart will be standing
  • That one Star Trek: Voyager episode where helmsman Tom Paris goes through rapid evolution
  • Dazzling oratorical genius of Clarence Darrow
  • Universe was created out of nothing billions of years ago, which you’ll just have to trust us on

Source: The Onion

Author Topic: Evolution and the age of the universe  (Read 16923 times)

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2015, 10:28:39 AM »
1. The universe is 13.8 billion years old.
2. The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
3. Humans and chimps have a common ancestor (we did not evolve from chimps, but from a common ancestor).
Yes yes yes. Why can't the world be 5800 days old since the completion of creation ("day" 7), while still acknowledging that billions of years preceded "day" 7?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2015, 10:31:58 AM »
What's the problem with the theory that God created everything in a grown up stage?
That should answer everything.
Were you taught that growing up?
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Offline henche

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2015, 10:32:22 AM »
How many books on the topic have you read before you reached that conclusion?

no, you're right, I haven't read enough books to have an opinion. 

How many have I read? You assume not enough, because I would obviously agree with you if I had.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2015, 10:34:42 AM »

no, you're right, I haven't read enough books to have an opinion. 

How many have I read? You assume not enough, because I would obviously agree with you if I had.

So, which ones have you read?

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2015, 10:43:30 AM »
Kinda busy now,  but I wanna thank everyone for participating in what has become a mature and non popcorn natured thread with minimal name calling. I'm proud to be part of this family.
READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2015, 10:50:42 AM »
Really glad I didn't join last night (I wouldn't function today on so little sleep :P)

There was lots said in this thread and so much to respond to that I don't know where to start so I'll just go to the point I made in my first post.

The reason I chose the Possuk from Parshahs Yisro and not the many from Parshas Bereishis is precisely BECAUSE I knew you'll say those aren't literal. Yet here we have a Possuk where you apparently take part of it literally and part you don't. Saying that the part of the Possuk that says to keep Shabbos is meant to be taken literally and the part that discusses the reason for it is not seems a bit arbitrary. What would you say to those who say that our whole way of keeping Shabbos today is based on primitive principals? After all turning on the ignition in a car is no where near the hard work it took to light a fire in the desert.

What you are basically saying is that the parts of Torah that are "with it" I accept and the parts that don't fit in with the latest trends I don't. I have no problem with that but at least have the intellectual honesty to realize that the Torah was never "with it". There was never a point in history where Torah ideas were "cool". To say that the "primitive Hebrew slaves" where able to handle smashing the paganism and immorality of Egypt and Canaan and yet could not grasp simple 6th grade biology is foolish and dishonest.

The attitude of cutting out the parts of the Torah that don't "fit in" to modern life is not a new one, just some stopped at Korbanos and others went on with Shabbos and Kashrus as well...
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2015, 10:51:31 AM »
Were you taught that growing up?

Some of us have been taught literal interpretations of verses such as the below one that indicate Last Thursdayism, some of us have been taught to value and consider scientific progress when shaping our understanding of the Torah, some of us have been taught a mix or a different approach altogether.
 
Genesis 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2015, 10:54:35 AM »
Some of us have been taught literal interpretations of verses such as the below one that indicate Last Thursdayism, some of us have been taught to value and consider scientific progress when shaping our understanding of the Torah, some of us have been taught a mix or a different approach altogether.
The reason I asked was because I never heard that in school but my kids did.
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2015, 10:59:59 AM »
no, you're right, I haven't read enough books to have an opinion. 

How many have I read? You assume not enough, because I would obviously agree with you if I had.
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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #99 on: February 12, 2015, 11:02:23 AM »
The reason I asked was because I never heard that in school but my kids did.
What year did you got school?
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #100 on: February 12, 2015, 11:05:34 AM »
What scares me about this thread is that a Jew who claims to be (Modern) Orthodox has so little education in Jewish Hashkafa, that he can claim that Karbanos are a hoax, because how can they please  God. Truly frightening.
Anyone that has a basic background in classical Jewish thought would realize that that is a foolish argument.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #101 on: February 12, 2015, 11:15:32 AM »
Were you taught that growing up?
It is explict in the Talmud that all animals were created in their adult stage.
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #102 on: February 12, 2015, 11:16:48 AM »
What scares me about this thread is that a Jew who claims to be (Modern) Orthodox has so little education in Jewish Hashkafa, that he can claim that Karbanos are a hoax, because how can they please  God. Truly frightening.
Anyone that has a basic background in classical Jewish thought would realize that that is a foolish argument.

You're the one disparaging without actually contributing. If you're too frightened we don't need to know about it. Why not enlighten us?

Offline aygart

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #103 on: February 12, 2015, 11:18:56 AM »
Really glad I didn't join last night (I wouldn't function today on so little sleep :P)

There was lots said in this thread and so much to respond to that I don't know where to start so I'll just go to the point I made in my first post.

The reason I chose the Possuk from Parshahs Yisro and not the many from Parshas Bereishis is precisely BECAUSE I knew you'll say those aren't literal. Yet here we have a Possuk where you apparently take part of it literally and part you don't. Saying that the part of the Possuk that says to keep Shabbos is meant to be taken literally and the part that discusses the reason for it is not seems a bit arbitrary. What would you say to those who say that our whole way of keeping Shabbos today is based on primitive principals? After all turning on the ignition in a car is no where near the hard work it took to light a fire in the desert.

What you are basically saying is that the parts of Torah that are "with it" I accept and the parts that don't fit in with the latest trends I don't. I have no problem with that but at least have the intellectual honesty to realize that the Torah was never "with it". There was never a point in history where Torah ideas were "cool". To say that the "primitive Hebrew slaves" where able to handle smashing the paganism and immorality of Egypt and Canaan and yet could not grasp simple 6th grade biology is foolish and dishonest.

The attitude of cutting out the parts of the Torah that don't "fit in" to modern life is not a new one, just some stopped at Korbanos and others went on with Shabbos and Kashrus as well...
Am I correct that you are saying another example (with added twists) of what I wrote here? (just trying to make sure I get what you are saying)
WHy would it be more "deceitful" to create a world already in motion that to explicitly lie about the details of creation. Even if the basic ideas needed to be written in a non-literal way to make it understandable to the people of the time, there still would be no need for all of the details which explicitly state that things were created bikomoson. You would need to explain each detail in torah shebichsav and baal peh as to why that is not even more deceitful than your allegations.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Evolution and the age of the universe
« Reply #104 on: February 12, 2015, 11:25:06 AM »
Am I correct that you are saying another example (with added twists) of what I wrote here? (just trying to make sure I get what you are saying)
No, I was addressing something very different (the idea that the Jews coming out of Mitzrayim were too primitive to understand an ancient world). Your point is a very good one that I wanted to elaborate on as well....
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