Can You Lend Your Credit Card To Someone And Enjoy The Miles?

[AsherO]

Whoever gives this shiur should recommend against people giving their credit out for spending just to earn miles. You're risking 100% of the money for (maximum) 5% gain, many people have lost huge amounts of money doing this...

[TimT]

Whoever gives this shiur should recommend against people giving their credit out for spending just to earn miles. You're risking 100% of the money for (maximum) 5% gain, many people have lost huge amounts of money doing this...

Will surely mention... from personal experience

[SBS]

I will try to get the recording soon and put it up, in the meantime I will summarize the points I discussed in Shiur, and the conclusions:

PART A:
1) If Reuven lets Shimon use his Credit Card to purchase merchandise for $5,000 and Shimon agrees to pay back before the 'due date,' then it's all fine.
2) Halachically, Shimon has no connection to the Bank, and it is as if there are two loans here, one loan from the Non-Jew to the Jew (Bank to Reuven), and one loan from the Jew to the Jew (Reuven to Shimon).
3) If Shimon wants to pay back in installments, and pay the interest, it is not allowed, unless Reuven & Shimon do a 'Heter Isska' between them (with all the risks involved).
4) If Shimon agreed to pay back in full on time, but he didn't, and as a result Reuven got hit with late fees and interest - There is debate what the Halacha is. According to some opinions - Reuven cannot charge Shimon for the interest, because it is as if he is charging interest on their loan (Taz). According to others - Reuven can demand the payment from Shimon as any person who causes a damage, and it's a 'Knas' (Maharshdam). And according to others - Reuven can't demand the payment, but Shimon should pay the interest as a means of appeasing Reuven for the damage caused.

PART B:
1) If Shimon asks Reuven to lend him his Credit Card and Reuven agrees without any convincing, then Reuven can keep the miles without a problem.
2) If Shimon convinces Reuven to lend him his Credit Card by saying that he will get x-amount of miles for the purchase, it may be a an issue, similar to the prohibition 'Derabanan' of making the lender feel good with extra niceties, etc.
3) If Reuven needs to meet a spending threshold for bonus points and can't do so on his own, and Shimon persuades him to let him use the CC so he gets the bonus - this is probably prohibited, as above. However, Reuven can offer Shimon the CC to meet the spending threshold.
4) Can Shimon ask Reuven for a share of the miles? (WILL BE DISCUSSED IN NEXT SHIUR - SEE BELOW)

===============

THIS SUNDAY, MARCH 15TH @ 10:00AM

I will be giving the next class, discussing the following:
1) If Reuven let Shimon use the CC to earn the sign-up bonus, and Reuven would not be able to earn it without Shimon, can Shimon claim a share of the miles?
2) If your boss paid for your business trip, can he claim the miles?
3) And More...

Date: Sunday March 15th
Time: 10:00am
Location: Mayan Yisroel of Flatbush, 3315 Avenue N, Brooklyn NY

[ilherman]

another thing to bear in mind: if the person doesn't pay you back on time, and you don't pay the CC bill on time because of that, it may be an issue for you to make them pay the interest that you pay the CC company.

This is as per some Ribis D'eureiseh.

- They never become yours they always belong to the bank/airline, Proof: You can have your miles removed at the
digression of the airline/bank without reason, this is not theft as they miles never belonged to you.

Solid point.

[Freddie]

Get video.

[ckmk47]

I ask my sister to use my cc so I can get miles.  She does so over a period of time.
I pay my cc on time.  My sister and I have various financial dealings: We buy stuff for each other, we split the cost of a family sheva brachos, etc.  We keep a running tally and periodically settle up.  We add the cc charges to the tally.
Any ribbis issues?


If I bought her a ticket on points that she didn't pay me for and only then I asked her to use my cc, does that change the situation?

[12HRS]

- They never become yours they always belong to the bank/airline, Proof: You can have your miles removed at the
digression of the airline/bank without reason, this is not theft as they miles never belonged to you.

Solid point.

the miles may be "worthless" as miles, but once they are "converted" into a hard benefit that changes it back to belonging to you.

[SBS]

I ask my sister to use my cc so I can get miles.  She does so over a period of time.
I pay my cc on time.  My sister and I have various financial dealings: We buy stuff for each other, we split the cost of a family sheva brachos, etc.  We keep a running tally and periodically settle up.  We add the cc charges to the tally.
Any ribbis issues?

If I bought her a ticket on points that she didn't pay me for and only then I asked her to use my cc, does that change the situation?

Since you asked her to use your CC, there are no issues of Ribbis in that.

[ckmk47]

Since you asked her to use your CC, there are no issues of Ribbis in that.

Thank you for responding.
Even though I gifted her an airline seat before we stared?  Would I still be allowed to gift her a plane ticket?

[ilherman]

the miles may be "worthless" as miles, but once they are "converted" into a hard benefit that changes it back to belonging to you.

Its not the point WORTHLESS. Its the points that they are just not mine. They belong to the airline/bank.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/03/08/experience-expert-witness-federal-criminal-trial-miles-points/

Points belong to the airline, not to the company. This has been one of the long held and awkward claims that frequent flyer programs make.

[Freddie]

Nu? How did it go? Can you post audio or video?

[JoeCha]

Its not the point WORTHLESS. Its the points that they are just not mine. They belong to the airline/bank.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/03/08/experience-expert-witness-federal-criminal-trial-miles-points/

That's all irrelevant.
Own it or not it's still a favor/benefit.

[SBS]

Reminder, tomorrow morning Shiur @ Mayan Yisroel - 3315 Avenue N, Brooklyn NY @ 10:00am

Will discuss the Halachos relating to a person obtaining a benefit from his work, or from someone else:
1) a boss sends his worker to buy something and the worker gets two-for-the-price-of-one, who keeps the second item
2) a boss pays for a ticket for his worker, who keeps the miles
3) someone lends his CC to his friend so he can get the sign-up bonus. Can the second guy claim a portion of the miles.

[AsherO]

Reminder, tomorrow morning Shiur @ Mayan Yisroel - 3315 Avenue N, Brooklyn NY @ 10:00am

Will discuss the Halachos relating to a person obtaining a benefit from his work, or from someone else:
1) a boss sends his worker to buy something and the worker gets two-for-the-price-of-one, who keeps the second item
2) a boss pays for a ticket for his worker, who keeps the miles
3) someone lends his CC to his friend so he can get the sign-up bonus. Can the second guy claim a portion of the miles.

What if I'm making an online purchase for my boss (or for a friend), can I click through a points portal and earn the points?

[coralsnake]

Reminder, tomorrow morning Shiur @ Mayan Yisroel - 3315 Avenue N, Brooklyn NY @ 10:00am

Will discuss the Halachos relating to a person obtaining a benefit from his work, or from someone else:
1) a boss sends his worker to buy something and the worker gets two-for-the-price-of-one, who keeps the second item
2) a boss pays for a ticket for his worker, who keeps the miles
3) someone lends his CC to his friend so he can get the sign-up bonus. Can the second guy claim a portion of the miles.

For #2- many airlines will only issue the miles in the name/account of the actual ticket.

[SBS]

The audio to the Shiurim:

http://www.mayanyisroel.net/2892473/

[MosheD]

Reminder, tomorrow morning Shiur @ Mayan Yisroel - 3315 Avenue N, Brooklyn NY @ 10:00am

Will discuss the Halachos relating to a person obtaining a benefit from his work, or from someone else:
1) a boss sends his worker to buy something and the worker gets two-for-the-price-of-one, who keeps the second item
2) a boss pays for a ticket for his worker, who keeps the miles
3) someone lends his CC to his friend so he can get the sign-up bonus. Can the second guy claim a portion of the miles.

Was this shuir ever posted? I only see first recording online (The bolded is precisly my q)
BTW started listening to first shuir anyway- great stuff. Given over clearly and with sources quoted
I also have an inborntrust for anyone with 22 HT 

[lunatic]

I asked a very well respected posek and he told me that it is not an issue

[benjie1305]

The audio to the Shiurim:

http://www.mayanyisroel.net/2892473/

Not working.

[keemster26]

Not working.

I think you need to download it first