For Sale or Trade: My Soul

[Aj3042]

As long as those bounderies are set by YOU based on what YOU consider OK than you fall into Dan's analysis. If you ask Al-Qaeda if they are extreme they'll just tell you "You think WE are extreme? We have boundaries, you should check out those ISIS folks next cave over"...

Correct. But since MOST consider them extreme they are extreme. MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER CRAZY MS EXTREME. So there you've helped my point.

[lunatic]

Ok if you're sincere here goes -there are certain practices that if you want to on your own are just questionable but to do it as a way of supporting yourself are not good. Let's consider the guy mentioned in the video before and how he gets into first class lounges. Is what he's doing illegal? No. would I say someone who does it occasionally is a bad guy? No, i would not. But then look at a guy like that, who does it for his office space. Or think of a guy who sells lounge passes using that trick for $25 each to unsuspecting people. Do you see the difference? Questionable practices can e looked over if done in small amounts but once you start going big it starts becoming shady.

So how exactly do you define what is OK? Whatever you feel like doing at that time? You are admitting that you do things that are objectively wrong, yet it is still just fine for you to do. However, if someone else does the same exact thing but a bit more, he is wrong.   

[Achas Veachas]

Correct. But since MOST consider them extreme they are extreme. MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER CRAZY MS EXTREME. So there you've helped my point.

MOST people consider ANY MS extreme...

You are like Frum people who complain that [insert religious sect more extreme than yours] are insane and extreme not realizing that to most people in this world, anyone who won't check their email or answer the phone on Shabbos is "extreme".

[dealfinder85]

As long as those bounderies are set by YOU based on what YOU consider OK than you fall into Dan's analysis. If you ask Al-Qaeda if they are extreme they'll just tell you "You think WE are extreme? We have boundaries, you should check out those ISIS folks next cave over"...

i laughed

[ChaimMoskowitz]

MOST people consider ANY MS extreme...

...and illegal.

[Shmelly]

I only read the OP but none of the subsequent comments, so my response may be a complete non sequitur. Just wanted to share my experience.

I've been following DD since it was still ctownbochur. As a very frugal person who has been trying to beat the system since I was in diapers, the miles game was terrifically appealing to me, and I jumped in to it headfirst. And I was good at it! I was never really in to travelling though, so in my first year of accruing and flipping miles and points I estimate that I made about $10K-$15K. Fifteen thousand tax free dollars! I loved every second of it and figured I'd be doing this forever.

One day I was sitting in my office at my real job, with a spreadsheet in front of me that needed to be populated. I had until the close of business to submit the data and potentially get my foot in the door of one of the largest retailers in the world. But there were credit cards to sign up for! And VRs to run out and buy! (I had a store in Brooklyn that always had VRs.) And a price mistake on staples for a desk lamp for only $2.75! And the next thing I knew it was 4PM and I still hadn't started on my data project. OK I thought, I can probably knock it out in an hour. But while this export is running, let me just check DDF again, just to be safe... (I sound like a junkie.)

My data was awful and I didn't get in to that retailer.

I then had an epiphany, that aha moment that would ultimately change my life. I suddenly realized that I spent more time trying to earn side money than I did on my primary business! Now, the cc game was a sure thing and my own biz was at the time a dark unknown, but the same amount of time and effort that I put in to this game that netted me $15K could be devoted to my own business with much more rewarding possibilities. I told myself I wouldn't do anything at all related to the cc game for the next 2 months.

I can't say I was perfect for those 2 months, but I do know that I now haven't signed up for a credit card in probably 2 years.  And in those 2 years my business has more than doubled and I've earned a heckuva lot more than the ~$30K I'd probably have pulled in by devoting that time to the cc game. While it may not have the same thrill as seeing those 100K points hit your account, the satisfaction I feel when I hit a new milestone (yesterday was the biggest day of sales I've ever had) or get a new big account is immeasurable.

Yes, I know that its pretty hypocritical that I just spent 10 minutes writing this. And I know that there are people who can do more than $15K/year playing this, and that not everyone has the same addictive personalty as me and can be productive both at this and at real life. But always remember that time is not fungible. While the hour you spend here may seem to be an hour well spent, it very often isn't. To each their own.

(Postscript - After a lot of hard work, I got in to that big box retailer and now have my products in over 500 of their stores, and I plan to roll out to the rest of their stores within the next 6 months.)

[EMCC]

...and illegal.

Look at my new signature.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

(Postscript - After a lot of hard work, I got in to that big box retailer and now have my products in over 500 of their stores, and I plan to roll out to the rest of their stores within the next 6 months.)

Wishing you nothing but the best.

[dealfinder85]

I only read the OP but none of the subsequent comments, so my response may be a complete non sequitur. Just wanted to share my experience.

I've been following DD since it was still ctownbochur. As a very frugal person who has been trying to beat the system since I was in diapers, the miles game was terrifically appealing to me, and I jumped in to it headfirst. And I was good at it! I was never really in to travelling though, so in my first year of accruing and flipping miles and points I estimate that I made about $10K-$15K. Fifteen thousand tax free dollars! I loved every second of it and figured I'd be doing this forever.

One day I was sitting in my office at my real job, with a spreadsheet in front of me that needed to be populated. I had until the close of business to submit the data and potentially get my foot in the door of one of the largest retailers in the world. But there were credit cards to sign up for! And VRs to run out and buy! (I had a store in Brooklyn that always had VRs.) And a price mistake on staples for a desk lamp for only $2.75! And the next thing I knew it was 4PM and I still hadn't started on my data project. OK I thought, I can probably knock it out in an hour. But while this export is running, let me just check DDF again, just to be safe... (I sound like a junkie.)

My data was awful and I didn't get in to that retailer.

I then had an epiphany, that aha moment that would ultimately change my life. I suddenly realized that I spent more time trying to earn side money than I did on my primary business! Now, the cc game was a sure thing and my own biz was at the time a dark unknown, but the same amount of time and effort that I put in to this game that netted me $15K could be devoted to my own business with much more rewarding possibilities. I told myself I wouldn't do anything at all related to the cc game for the next 2 months.

I can't say I was perfect for those 2 months, but I do know that I now haven't signed up for a credit card in probably 2 years.  And in those 2 years my business has more than doubled and I've earned a heckuva lot more than the ~$30K I'd probably have pulled in by devoting that time to the cc game. While it may not have the same thrill as seeing those 100K points hit your account, the satisfaction I feel when I hit a new milestone (yesterday was the biggest day of sales I've ever had) or get a new big account is immeasurable.

Yes, I know that its pretty hypocritical that I just spent 10 minutes writing this. And I know that there are people who can do more than $15K/year playing this, and that not everyone has the same addictive personalty as me and can be productive both at this and at real life. But always remember that time is not fungible. While the hour you spend here may seem to be an hour well spent, it very often isn't. To each their own.

(Postscript - After a lot of hard work, I got in to that big box retailer and now have my products in over 500 of their stores, and I plan to roll out to the rest of their stores within the next 6 months.)

why do i feel like im watching an episode of shark tank

[JoeCha]

I only read the OP but none of the subsequent comments, so my response may be a complete non sequitur. Just wanted to share my experience.

I've been following DD since it was still ctownbochur. As a very frugal person who has been trying to beat the system since I was in diapers, the miles game was terrifically appealing to me, and I jumped in to it headfirst. And I was good at it! I was never really in to travelling though, so in my first year of accruing and flipping miles and points I estimate that I made about $10K-$15K. Fifteen thousand tax free dollars! I loved every second of it and figured I'd be doing this forever.

One day I was sitting in my office at my real job, with a spreadsheet in front of me that needed to be populated. I had until the close of business to submit the data and potentially get my foot in the door of one of the largest retailers in the world. But there were credit cards to sign up for! And VRs to run out and buy! (I had a store in Brooklyn that always had VRs.) And a price mistake on staples for a desk lamp for only $2.75! And the next thing I knew it was 4PM and I still hadn't started on my data project. OK I thought, I can probably knock it out in an hour. But while this export is running, let me just check DDF again, just to be safe... (I sound like a junkie.)

My data was awful and I didn't get in to that retailer.

I then had an epiphany, that aha moment that would ultimately change my life. I suddenly realized that I spent more time trying to earn side money than I did on my primary business! Now, the cc game was a sure thing and my own biz was at the time a dark unknown, but the same amount of time and effort that I put in to this game that netted me $15K could be devoted to my own business with much more rewarding possibilities. I told myself I wouldn't do anything at all related to the cc game for the next 2 months.

I can't say I was perfect for those 2 months, but I do know that I now haven't signed up for a credit card in probably 2 years.  And in those 2 years my business has more than doubled and I've earned a heckuva lot more than the ~$30K I'd probably have pulled in by devoting that time to the cc game. While it may not have the same thrill as seeing those 100K points hit your account, the satisfaction I feel when I hit a new milestone (yesterday was the biggest day of sales I've ever had) or get a new big account is immeasurable.

Yes, I know that its pretty hypocritical that I just spent 10 minutes writing this. And I know that there are people who can do more than $15K/year playing this, and that not everyone has the same addictive personalty as me and can be productive both at this and at real life. But always remember that time is not fungible. While the hour you spend here may seem to be an hour well spent, it very often isn't. To each their own.

(Postscript - After a lot of hard work, I got in to that big box retailer and now have my products in over 500 of their stores, and I plan to roll out to the rest of their stores within the next 6 months.)

Kol hakuvod!

Precisely my point, just with hard proof.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Look at my new signature.

In all seriousness isn't there a simple answer to your dilemma? Just ask your LOR?

[EMCC]

Kol hakuvod!

Precisely my point, just with hard proof.

+1

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Precisely my point, just with hard proof.

I would post some stories that would blow your proof out of the water if a could but I can't.

[dealfinder85]

Kol hakuvod!

Precisely my point, just with hard proof.

yes...for ppl who run their own businesses
i think its completely foolish and irresponsible if you have your own business, which is as successful as the time you put into it, if you spend your day on ddf
however, if you work a desk job where you have a set salary, and you can get the necessary work done even with sprinkling in some ddf, then why not

[benjie1305]

why do i feel like im watching an episode of shark tank

Are you soundbender or Mensch on a bench?

[EMCC]

yes...for ppl who run their own businesses
i think its completely foolish and irresponsible if you have your own business, which is as successful as the time you put into it, if you spend your day on ddf
however, if you work a desk job where you have a set salary, and you can get the necessary work done even with sprinkling in some ddf, then why not

You can always get a promotion.

[JoeCha]

I would post some stories that would blow your proof out of the water if a could but I can't.

It is way easier to follow Shmelly's footsteps than doing the stuff you're referring to.

Your stuff makes ISIS look moderate in comparison 

[dealfinder85]

You can always get a promotion.

-1
promotions can happen, but for many respectable jobs out there, you have what you need to do and there arent always opportunities to go above and beyond. when those present themselves, i would hope you could lay off ddf for the time being
but for a typical day, you can spend time on ddf without any harm done
that cant be said if you own and run your own business

[jj1000]

I only read the OP but none of the subsequent comments, so my response may be a complete non sequitur. Just wanted to share my experience.

Great post.

As with everything in life it must be with moderation.

If you can't control your spending - don't get a credit card.
If you spend less time with your friends and family or do a sub-par job performance due to the game - get out of it.

But if you can handle your job family etc and still do the CC game than enjoy it for what it is, whether that's taking your dream vacation or earning an extra $10,000 a year.

This isn't a kosher way of making 10-100k a year. It's just not straight enough that people should be supporting themselves off it. Is it illegal? Mostly no. Is it agaisnt the TCs? Often not. But it isn't the straight and narrow so it shouldn't be a source of paranassah.

If you have ethical qualms don't do something. But it is clear from your posts that you justify what you do.

When Dan said Amex's intentions of SBS everyone said you don't know their intentions, but for redcards and signing up for websites all of a sudden you know their intentions because it is within your personal set of ethics.

Get a good rav and find decide for yourself what is allowed and what's not allowed. And if someone else holds differently than you, doesn't mean they are wrong. They just have different standards.

[benjie1305]

-1
promotions can happen, but for many respectable jobs out there, you have what you need to do and there arent always opportunities to go above and beyond. when those present themselves, i would hope you could lay off ddf for the time being
but for a typical day, you can spend time on ddf without any harm done
that cant be said if you own and run your own business

Is the promotion making u more then MS?