Author Topic: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France  (Read 11719 times)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60299
  • Total likes: 7549
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2015, 01:17:28 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html

What is a Dr's responsibility if they have a patient they think is too depressed to fly a plane?
Is he allowed to tell the employer? Does he have a duty to do so if he feels he'll put others at harm? Can he be sued for not doing so?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline lunatic

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 4290
  • Total likes: 14
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #81 on: March 27, 2015, 01:25:46 PM »
Wow,  how terrible must that doctor feel now. Responsible for all the deaths

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 25492
  • Total likes: 2950
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 75
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #82 on: March 27, 2015, 01:59:32 PM »
But they didn't find that one yet...

FWIU they found the box but the memory card was missing (which sounds ridiculous BTW), please CMIIW.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4224
  • Total likes: 82
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2015, 02:05:14 PM »
FWIU they found the box but the memory card was missing (which sounds ridiculous BTW), please CMIIW.
Not so ridiculous if you consider it was smashed into a mountain at 700 MPH.

Offline ShlockDoc

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2337
  • Total likes: 52
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2015, 02:16:49 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html

What is a Dr's responsibility if they have a patient they think is too depressed to fly a plane?
Is he allowed to tell the employer? Does he have a duty to do so if he feels he'll put others at harm? Can he be sued for not doing so?

There are too many jurisdictions involved to have a comprehensive answer.     

Offline TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19748
  • Total likes: 3070
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2015, 02:46:06 PM »
Not so ridiculous if you consider it was smashed into a mountain at 700 MPH.
Isn't the whole point that it should withstand any crash ?

Offline Toasted

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1094
  • Total likes: 193
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2015, 03:03:03 PM »
Is the company legally liable for a deliberate act by one of its employees?

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60299
  • Total likes: 7549
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2015, 03:08:52 PM »
Is the company legally liable for a deliberate act by one of its employees?
If it was negligent in vetting the employee, sure.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4224
  • Total likes: 82
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2015, 03:17:58 PM »
Isn't the whole point that it should withstand any crash ?
That would be asking for a bit much...

From the Wikipedia article:
Quote
Currently, EUROCAE specifies that a recorder must be able to withstand an acceleration of 3400 g (33 km/sē) for 6.5 milliseconds. This is roughly equivalent to an impact velocity of 270 knots (310 mph) and a deceleration or crushing distance of 450 cm
I guess we should be thankful the voice recorded survived, albeit barely...

Offline eliteflyer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 53
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2015, 04:09:00 PM »
If it was negligent in vetting the employee, sure.
I'm not a transport attorney, but I'm pretty sure the Montreal Convention and applicable regulatory framework provide for liability and compensation in the event of death or injury (in a fixed amount) even if negligence by the carrier is not shown. That's not to say that families couldnt alsp pursue a separate claim of negligence against the airline or its parent based on negligence.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 04:12:22 PM by eliteflyer »

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 60299
  • Total likes: 7549
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #90 on: March 27, 2015, 04:19:17 PM »
I'm not a transport attorney, but I'm pretty sure the Montreal Convention and applicable regulatory framework provide for liability and compensation in the event of death or injury (in a fixed amount) even if negligence by the carrier is not shown.
Indeed. But this may wind up going far beyond that.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ual902

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 1718
  • Total likes: 22
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #91 on: March 27, 2015, 04:22:32 PM »
Indeed. But this may wind up going far beyond that.

Looks like its headed to the Doctors:

Revealed: TWO doctors ruled Germanwings co-pilot was unfit for work on day of the disaster - but he kept it secret from airline
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013743/Germanwings-pilot-slipped-safety-net-devastating-consequences.html
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 04:26:24 PM by ual902 »

Offline alpicone

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 881
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #92 on: March 27, 2015, 04:39:26 PM »

That would be asking for a bit much...

From the Wikipedia article:I guess we should be thankful the voice recorded survived, albeit barely...

The only reason they "know" so much about the cause of the crash is because of the data recorder. You would think there would be streaming the data via satellite by now.

Offline aradisc

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 278
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2015, 04:49:03 PM »
I guess we should be thankful the voice recorded survived, albeit barely...

I wouldn't say barely. The recording is kept in the cylinder part, and it looks to be in remarkably great shape. Especially considering the circumstances.

Diagram of black box design: https://cafeberitaonline.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/black-box1.jpg
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 04:54:38 PM by aradisc »

Offline aradisc

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 278
  • Total likes: 16
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #94 on: March 27, 2015, 04:52:52 PM »
You would think there would be streaming the data via satellite by now.

All of the suggestions of streaming data or video wouldn't prevent any crashes. The only circumstances I can think of where it would help anything is MH370, but only to find the plane, not save anyone.

This one was not a huge mystery, the NY Times learned of the pilot lockout within 48hrs.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4224
  • Total likes: 82
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2015, 05:00:43 PM »
I wouldn't say barely. The recording is kept in the cylinder part, and it looks to be in remarkably great shape. Especially considering the circumstances.
True and as I said it is remarkable that it survived a crash 2 times as strong as it it was designed for, though I gotta say that is the most beat up Recorder I've ever seen...

Offline yitzy93

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 875
  • Total likes: 14
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #96 on: March 28, 2015, 07:45:28 PM »
New reports that the co-pilot was dumped by his girlfriend the day before he crashed the jet.
Cold blooded murderer!  :( http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/28/germanwings-co-pilot-dumped-by-girlfriend-day-before-crash-being-treated-for/

Offline chff

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4963
  • Total likes: 242
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
  • Programs: All of them...
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #97 on: March 28, 2015, 09:12:55 PM »
But to know it was set to 100 ft? the plane crashed in terrain that was 2,000-6,000 ft...
From the raw ADS-B data, it show that he set the altitude for 97ft, but their was a mountain at 2000/6000 ft so it crashed there....

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4224
  • Total likes: 82
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #98 on: March 28, 2015, 09:15:32 PM »
From the raw ADS-B data, it show that he set the altitude for 97ft, but their was a mountain at 2000/6000 ft so it crashed there....
That was my question, since when does the ADS-B broadcast A/P settings?

Offline chff

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4963
  • Total likes: 242
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
  • Programs: All of them...
Re: Germanwings flight 4U-9525 crashes in France
« Reply #99 on: March 28, 2015, 09:21:11 PM »
That was my question, since when does the ADS-B broadcast A/P settings?
Flightradar24 posted that reviewing the data after the crash they found out this info and passed it on to the BEA and made it public 2 days later