Wall of shame???

[Yitz]

Going to the authorities is easier said than done.  Consider that:

1.  It's often her word against his with no physical evidence.
2.  He is often a charismatic, well loved person in the community.
3.  Our community has a history of rallying behind accused abusers and vilifying victims
4.  Going to the authorities and then not having charges filed will lead to the destruction of the reputation of the victim.
5.  It's really frikkin hard to go talk to people about terrible, very personal things that someone did to you.  Imagine the fear or reliving it in the police station and then potentially again in court in public.

So that's important to keep in mind when "judging" a victim..   

You are correct with your 5 points I know a victim that went to the officials. It is like going through the abuse again and I would not recommend it. The court systems does not make it comfortable for the victim.

[skyguy918]

Substitute Priest for Rav and we have instant replay.

Is it your goal to make the same exact point on each page of this thread? If this wasn't in JS you'd be accused of posting just to inflate your count.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Is it your goal to make the same exact point on each page of this thread?

Until it sinks in, yes.

[aygart]

Smicha, Dayanus, Shimush, Experience

In that case they are nearly irrelevant compared to the numerous rabbonim who have hundreds of times more than you of each of those. Even the ones who are considered to be victim advocates do not make such broad criteria as you did. Btw, did any of those involve cases of abuse in any significant amount? I can claim similar qualifications although not as a congregational rabbi and I don't know you well enough to compare amounts.

[dealfinder85]

In that case they are nearly irrelevant compared to the numerous rabbonim who have hundreds of times more than you of each of those. Even the ones who are considered to be victim advocates do not make such broad criteria as you did. Btw, did any of those involve cases of abuse in any significant amount? I can claim similar qualifications although not as a congregational rabbi and I don't know you well enough to compare amounts.

how about you 2 save your airing of grievances for festivus

[aygart]

how about you 2 save your airing of grievances for festivus

I have no grievances. I just feel that he is making overly broad criteria. These are issues which are not simple at all. Figuring out the legitimacy of claims can involve extensive specialized training and are certainly not a part of the training of most Rabbis.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The poll results tell me that most that voted feel that something needs to be done. That is encouraging.

[moshe87]

BH

The poll shows that the wall of shame isnt necessarily the best way.

The poll results tell me that most that voted feel that something needs to be done. That is encouraging.

DUUUHHH  we dont need a poll to show us that

[ual902]

BH

The poll shows that the wall of shame isnt necessarily the best way.

DUUUHHH  we dont need a poll to show us that

The wall of shame has helped reduce child molestation, why so many people are pro child molsters boggles my mind.  No one else is doing anything about it other then JCW.

[SBS]

Recommended reading:

Parts of the Pischei T'shuva on OC Siman 156.

[skyguy918]

Recommended reading:

Parts of the Pischei T'shuva on OC Siman 156.

His examples are where you yourself saw the other person doing those things.

[Achas Veachas]

His examples are where you yourself saw the other person doing those things.

How much more so if he did it to you that you have the responsibility to warn others...

[SBS]

His examples are where you yourself saw the other person doing those things.

He brings two examples:

#1: Someone is "planning a hit" on someone else [The guy is just planning, didn't do anything yet].
#2: Someone broke into someone else's house or store [The guy already did something].

And he doesn't differentiate between them.

[Achas Veachas]

He brings two examples:

#1: Someone is "planning a hit" on someone else [The guy is just planning, didn't do anything yet].
#2: Someone broke into someone else's house or store [The guy already did something].

And he doesn't differentiate between them.

CMIIW But I understood #2 to mean someone who IS DIGGING to get into his friend's home i.e. still planning.

[Yehuda57]

The wall of shame has helped reduce child molestation,

And you know this because?

why so many people are pro child molsters boggles my mind.

Not being pro JCW /= being pro molesters. Why people think that boggles my mind.

No one else is doing anything about it other then JCW.

1) Even if this were true, that hardly justifies them to use any methods they choose with impunity, and expect the community to support them just because they are the only ones.

2) Please. They are the only ones doing things like Walll of Shame, maybe, but they are FAR from the only ones doing things about abuse. There has been a complete upheaval in attitude and education which follows the trend in society outside of the Jewish world, albeit slower.

Does much, much more need to be done? Absolutely. And these discussions are helpful. Are the JCW methods the way to go? I honestly don't know. But not supporting them or agreeing with them does not mean I support abuse, abusers or wish to sweep it under the rug.

[skyguy918]

He brings two examples:

#1: Someone is "planning a hit" on someone else [The guy is just planning, didn't do anything yet].
#2: Someone broke into someone else's house or store [The guy already did something].

And he doesn't differentiate between them.

Nor did I. My point is that he says במי שראה and או שראה, using examples of first-hand knowledge.

[Achas Veachas]

And you know this because?

Not being pro JCW /= being pro molesters. Why people think that boggles my mind.

1) Even if this were true, that hardly justifies them to use any methods they choose with impunity, and expect the community to support them just because they are the only ones.

2) Please. They are the only ones doing things like Walll of Shame, maybe, but they are FAR from the only ones doing things about abuse. There has been a complete upheaval in attitude and education which follows the trend in society outside of the Jewish world, albeit slower.

Does much, much more need to be done? Absolutely. And these discussions are helpful. Are the JCW methods the way to go? I honestly don't know. But not supporting them or agreeing with them does not mean I support abuse, abusers or wish to sweep it under the rug.

Well said.

[skyguy918]

How much more so if he did it to you that you have the responsibility to warn others...

What do you mean how much more so? If he said it where you have second-hand knowledge, then you can make a kal v'chomer to direct involvement. But if he said it by direct involvement, it's not a kal v'chomer the other way.

[Achas Veachas]

What do you mean how much more so? If he said it where you have second-hand knowledge, then you can make a kal v'chomer to direct involvement. But if he said it by direct involvement, it's not a kal v'chomer the other way.

I think you misunderstood me, if someone was molested he has first hand knowledge and has an obligation to report it so no one else gets hurt CH"V

[SBS]

Nor did I. My point is that he says במי שראה and או שראה, using examples of first-hand knowledge.

That's obvious. I don't think JCW will brand a guy a "molester" based on rumors, rather only after they hear from the victims, who are "first hand," and then there is a Mitzvah (acc. to Pischei Tshuva) to say what happened and who did it, to protect others from the molester.