Author Topic: Pesach Torah  (Read 4471 times)

Offline good sam

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Pesach Torah
« on: March 30, 2015, 08:36:33 PM »
Thought there was a similar thread way back when, couldn't find it on tapatalk.

Anyone have any nice vertlach on Pesach /seder/haggada?

Here is something I found from the Chid"a. Interesting take on the idea of להראות
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline TimT

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 09:07:06 PM »
Here's one.
Not working for me
Thought there was a similar thread way back when
This was halachos for pesach.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 09:12:13 PM by TimT »

Offline coralsnake

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 09:59:49 PM »
Not working for me
Me either so deleted.
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Offline yakrot

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 10:02:45 PM »
[/IMG]

Offline DP7

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 10:12:53 PM »

[/IMG]

Which Haggadah is this picture from

Offline yakrot

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 10:13:31 PM »
Which Haggadah is this picture from
I have not a clue

Offline yakrot

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 10:13:49 PM »
But if you find out please share

Offline TimT

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 10:14:09 PM »
Which Haggadah is this picture from
What are you seeing ? I'm on mobile & not seeing anything

Offline DP7

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 10:14:48 PM »

What are you seeing ? I'm on mobile & not seeing anything

I'm on mobile too and I see the picture. 

Offline good sam

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2015, 11:44:49 PM »
והוא פלא
He knows it's ridiculous so why does he bring it down?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline coralsnake

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 12:32:03 AM »
Here ya go:

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Offline TimT

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 12:34:15 AM »
Here ya go:
Wow. I wouldn't recommend trying that experiment at home.

Offline chucksterace

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 12:35:57 AM »
Anyone care to translate?
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Offline TimT

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 12:40:16 AM »
Anyone care to translate?
He heard from someone that saw written in some hagadah that when you say "maror zeh" if you don't have maror to point to, point at your wife instead. As its written "the wife could be more "bitter" than death".

Offline good sam

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 12:41:33 AM »
Paraphrase:
It was found in one of the stolen manuscripts kept in the Vatican which is written on parchment that one who has no bitter herb but who has a bitter wife may point to her when referencing the bitter herb.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline TimT

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 12:43:23 AM »
Paraphrase:
It was found in one of the stolen manuscripts kept in the Vatican which is written on parchment that one who has no bitter herb but who has a bitter wife may point to her when referencing the bitter herb.
It doesn't say "but who has a bitter wife"

Offline good sam

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 12:47:49 AM »
He goes on to say that the author clearly did not have a suitable wife such as the one extolled by King Solomon in Proverbs.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2015, 01:03:01 AM »
Matza (not the food) o motza
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2015, 08:11:43 AM »
 Maybe it goes in the interesting articles thread, but is exactly about this
http://seforim.blogspot.com/2012/04/halakhah-and-haggadah-manuscript.html?m=1
Quote
Setting aside the issue of what marror is, another custom related to marror can be found in both printed and manuscript haggadot. In the Prague, 1526, the first illustrated printed haggadah, there is a picture of a man pointing at his wife with the legend, “there is a custom that a man points to his wife when mentioning marror based upon the verse Ecclesiastes 7:26 “Now I find woman more bitter than death.”



A.Y. Hyman the scholar of Jewish liturgy was appalled when he came across this. In his autobiography, he claims that there is no basis whatsoever for this “custom.” Hyman is wrong.[5] If you look at the Brother to the Rylands Haggadah you can see that it shows this custom. As does the Washington Haggadah.



Likewise, the Rothschild Miscellany shows the same custom.



It’s worth noting that the Rothschild Miscellany shows another custom at the time, mid-14th century, that of mixed dancing.

Setting aside the issue of what marror is, another custom related to marror can be found in both printed and manuscript haggadot. In the Prague, 1526, the first illustrated printed haggadah, there is a picture of a man pointing at his wife with the legend, “there is a custom that a man points to his wife when mentioning marror based upon the verse Ecclesiastes 7:26 “Now I find woman more bitter than death.”



A.Y. Hyman the scholar of Jewish liturgy was appalled when he came across this. In his autobiography, he claims that there is no basis whatsoever for this “custom.” Hyman is wrong.[5] If you look at the Brother to the Rylands Haggadah you can see that it shows this custom. As does the Washington Haggadah.



Likewise, the Rothschild Miscellany shows the same custom.



It’s worth noting that the Rothschild Miscellany shows another custom at the time, mid-14th century, that of mixed dancing.



The mixed dancing is that of couples, husband and wives dancing with each other, and not that of unmarried men and women dancing[6] In Italy, where this manuscript was composed, mixed dancing was apparently common during this period.[7]

Returning to the gesturing at one’s wife at marror, in the Hiluq and Biluq Haggadah this custom takes on a somewhat more humorous dialogue with the wife no longer passive but instead returns the compliment. In that haggadah it includes speech balloons and they record the following: The husband states “touching marror I must recall that this one, too is bitter [as gall].” To which the wife replies, “It is you [my husband] is one of the causes of bitterness as well.” After which, we have a play on the 13 attributes of Rabbi Yishmael and the haggadah provides that “the third comes between them [perhaps the marror itself] and makes a stink” - or in Hebrew ve-yavo ha-shlishei ve-yakhriach benehem.[8]





Similarly, in some Ashkenazic haggadot manuscripts, they show the the husband and wife pointing at one another.[9]


The mixed dancing is that of couples, husband and wives dancing with each other, and not that of unmarried men and women dancing[6] In Italy, where this manuscript was composed, mixed dancing was apparently common during this period.[7]

Returning to the gesturing at one’s wife at marror, in the Hiluq and Biluq Haggadah this custom takes on a somewhat more humorous dialogue with the wife no longer passive but instead returns the compliment. In that haggadah it includes speech balloons and they record the following: The husband states “touching marror I must recall that this one, too is bitter [as gall].” To which the wife replies, “It is you [my husband] is one of the causes of bitterness as well.” After which, we have a play on the 13 attributes of Rabbi Yishmael and the haggadah provides that “the third comes between them [perhaps the marror itself] and makes a stink” - or in Hebrew ve-yavo ha-shlishei ve-yakhriach benehem.[8]






Similarly, in some Ashkenazic haggadot manuscripts, they show the the husband and wife pointing at one another.[9]
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 08:17:22 AM by noturbizniss »
READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

Chuck Norris...
...can still do FT method
...READS THE WIKI!!!

Offline good sam

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Re: Pesach Torah
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2015, 09:05:18 PM »
Wow.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD