Random questions.

[CountValentine]

you see there’s 2 dinim here: when it goes against torah law we can’t rule against it, but when it doesn’t we’re still ruling according to secular law and not torah law , you chap?

We are on the same page.

[ExGingi]

Yes to the first question.
If the Torah allows you to decide on secular law when being on jury duty I see no issue.
From the answers I have been getting it seems that is not the case. Then of course they should avoid jury duty. If they can't decide the case on secular law I can't see them ever being picked for jury duty.

This is why I asked you for an example case.

Let's take admissible evidence and testimony as what might probably be the thorniest issue. IINM the Torah is a lot more stringent on what might be acceptable as evidence or testimony. However I am not sure if the Torah sets the same standard for a "trial" of a Jew which is required to take place in front of a Beis Din that rules based on Halacha, and a trial where no Jew is involved and is required to take place in front of a court that follows the law of the land.

One way or the other, the simplest thing to do is to avoid having to deal with a complex and sensitive matter.

[zh cohen]

here’s the question I asked my rav (rabbi stein from 5towns for those who want to know): If a yid is on jury duty, is he allowed to side with a secular law or concept when it’s against the torah/ Halacha in some way?
His answer: no
@CountValentine

What if Torah says that in that situation secular law is the determining factor?

[CountValentine]

Let's take admissible evidence and testimony as what might probably be the thorniest issue. IINM the Torah is a lot more stringent on what might be acceptable as evidence or testimony. However I am not sure if the Torah sets the same standard for a "trial" of a Jew which is required to take place in front of a Beis Din that rules based on Halacha, and a trial where no Jew is involved and is required to take place in front of a court that follows the law of the land.

I get what your saying.
Lets make it harder. A Jew is on trial in a secular trial.
Is a Jew allowed to serve on the jury (according to the Torah).

[ExGingi]

I get what your saying.
Lets make it harder. A Jew is on trial in a secular trial.
Is a Jew allowed to serve on the jury (according to the Torah).

I am not qualified to answer this, it would be a question for a competent Halachic authority, but my guess would be "probably not" (except if there's an opportunity to save the Jew's life somehow by being part of the Jury).

[CountValentine]

I am not qualified to answer this, it would be a question for a competent Halachic authority, but my guess would be "probably not".

Fair enough and I am amazed this has never come up.

[CountValentine]

(except if there's an opportunity to save the Jew's life somehow by being part of the Jury).

I am not going to go there. 

[coffeebean]

If a religious Jew served on a jury would they be able decide on the facts of the case even if it went against the Torah?
I hope no one takes this the wrong way.
Some Catholics would not be able to decide just on the facts. Their religious beliefs would take over.

Can you give an example of a case where this would imply?

[aygart]

this has never come up.

Source?

[Happyguy]

He would have to rule like the Torah so therefore one should avoid getting involved in such a profession.

[coffeebean]

He would have to rule like the Torah so therefore one should avoid getting involved in such a profession.

My Rabbi just told me otherwise

[Happyguy]

My Rabbi just told me otherwise

Why?

[CountValentine]

Source?

You want a source for me being amazed it has never come up?

[Euclid]

Fair enough and I am amazed this has never come up.

How many (active) DDF members ever faced something like this? Getting picked for an actual jury is rare enough, getting picked for a jury that's trying a case where secular law contradicts Jewish law is even rarer.

[grodnoking]

AYLOR 

That's why he's here.

[CountValentine]

How many (active) DDF members ever faced something like this? Getting picked for an actual jury is rare enough, getting picked for a jury that's trying a case where secular law contradicts Jewish law is even rarer.

I am not talking about individual members. I am talking about the powers at be have not gave a ruling.
AFAIK most are called for jury duty at some point. It seems it would be a prudent thing to know before you serve.

[ExGingi]

I am not talking about individual members. I am talking about the powers at be have not gave a ruling.
AFAIK most are called for jury duty at some point. It seems it would be a prudent thing to know before you serve.

Every case is unique. Or should we save the time and effort of every trial by jury by having pre-determined template rulings?

[CountValentine]

Every case is unique. Or should we save the time and effort of every trial by jury by having pre-determined template rulings?

Cases are unique but the question applies to all cases. If there is a conflict will you decide by secular or religious law.
It does not get anymore black and white than that.

[Happyguy]

Best place to dowload a documentary which was on Kan 11 (Israeli)?

[Euclid]

Cases are unique but the question applies to all cases. If there is a conflict will you decide by secular or religious law.
It does not get anymore black and white than that.

That's what I'm saying; it's possible there is a (relatively*) blanket ruling, but we (DDF members) aren't aware of it since it's not really applicable all too often.

*(There may be a rabbinical disagreement about it, but that doesn't mean there haven't been blanket rulings.)