Author Topic: Random questions.  (Read 1012337 times)

Online CountValentine

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5700 on: November 07, 2021, 12:31:46 PM »
you see there’s 2 dinim here: when it goes against torah law we can’t rule against it, but when it doesn’t we’re still ruling according to secular law and not torah law , you chap?
We are on the same page.
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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5701 on: November 07, 2021, 12:33:01 PM »
Yes to the first question.
If the Torah allows you to decide on secular law when being on jury duty I see no issue.
From the answers I have been getting it seems that is not the case. Then of course they should avoid jury duty. If they can't decide the case on secular law I can't see them ever being picked for jury duty.

This is why I asked you for an example case.

Let's take admissible evidence and testimony as what might probably be the thorniest issue. IINM the Torah is a lot more stringent on what might be acceptable as evidence or testimony. However I am not sure if the Torah sets the same standard for a "trial" of a Jew which is required to take place in front of a Beis Din that rules based on Halacha, and a trial where no Jew is involved and is required to take place in front of a court that follows the law of the land.

One way or the other, the simplest thing to do is to avoid having to deal with a complex and sensitive matter.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5702 on: November 07, 2021, 12:33:55 PM »
here’s the question I asked my rav (rabbi stein from 5towns for those who want to know): If a yid is on jury duty, is he allowed to side with a secular law or concept when it’s against the torah/ Halacha in some way?
His answer: no
@CountValentine

What if Torah says that in that situation secular law is the determining factor?

Online CountValentine

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5703 on: November 07, 2021, 12:38:59 PM »
Let's take admissible evidence and testimony as what might probably be the thorniest issue. IINM the Torah is a lot more stringent on what might be acceptable as evidence or testimony. However I am not sure if the Torah sets the same standard for a "trial" of a Jew which is required to take place in front of a Beis Din that rules based on Halacha, and a trial where no Jew is involved and is required to take place in front of a court that follows the law of the land.
I get what your saying.
Lets make it harder. A Jew is on trial in a secular trial.
Is a Jew allowed to serve on the jury (according to the Torah).

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5704 on: November 07, 2021, 12:42:28 PM »
I get what your saying.
Lets make it harder. A Jew is on trial in a secular trial.
Is a Jew allowed to serve on the jury (according to the Torah).

I am not qualified to answer this, it would be a question for a competent Halachic authority, but my guess would be "probably not" (except if there's an opportunity to save the Jew's life somehow by being part of the Jury).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5705 on: November 07, 2021, 12:43:52 PM »
I am not qualified to answer this, it would be a question for a competent Halachic authority, but my guess would be "probably not".
Fair enough and I am amazed this has never come up.
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Online CountValentine

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5706 on: November 07, 2021, 12:44:52 PM »
(except if there's an opportunity to save the Jew's life somehow by being part of the Jury).
I am not going to go there.  ;)
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Offline coffeebean

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5707 on: November 07, 2021, 01:05:06 PM »
If a religious Jew served on a jury would they be able decide on the facts of the case even if it went against the Torah?
I hope no one takes this the wrong way.
Some Catholics would not be able to decide just on the facts. Their religious beliefs would take over.
Can you give an example of a case where this would imply?

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5708 on: November 07, 2021, 01:08:13 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Happyguy

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5709 on: November 07, 2021, 01:10:00 PM »
He would have to rule like the Torah so therefore one should avoid getting involved in such a profession.

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5710 on: November 07, 2021, 01:10:32 PM »
He would have to rule like the Torah so therefore one should avoid getting involved in such a profession.
My Rabbi just told me otherwise

Offline Happyguy

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5711 on: November 07, 2021, 01:16:51 PM »

Online CountValentine

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5712 on: November 07, 2021, 01:59:07 PM »
Source?
You want a source for me being amazed it has never come up?
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Offline Euclid

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5713 on: November 07, 2021, 02:51:25 PM »
Fair enough and I am amazed this has never come up.
How many (active) DDF members ever faced something like this? Getting picked for an actual jury is rare enough, getting picked for a jury that's trying a case where secular law contradicts Jewish law is even rarer.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5714 on: November 07, 2021, 02:54:54 PM »
I'm not who you think I am.

Online CountValentine

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5715 on: November 07, 2021, 03:10:38 PM »
How many (active) DDF members ever faced something like this? Getting picked for an actual jury is rare enough, getting picked for a jury that's trying a case where secular law contradicts Jewish law is even rarer.
I am not talking about individual members. I am talking about the powers at be have not gave a ruling.
AFAIK most are called for jury duty at some point. It seems it would be a prudent thing to know before you serve.

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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5716 on: November 07, 2021, 03:19:44 PM »
I am not talking about individual members. I am talking about the powers at be have not gave a ruling.
AFAIK most are called for jury duty at some point. It seems it would be a prudent thing to know before you serve.

Every case is unique. Or should we save the time and effort of every trial by jury by having pre-determined template rulings?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5717 on: November 07, 2021, 03:29:35 PM »
Every case is unique. Or should we save the time and effort of every trial by jury by having pre-determined template rulings?
Cases are unique but the question applies to all cases. If there is a conflict will you decide by secular or religious law.
It does not get anymore black and white than that.
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Re: Random questions.
« Reply #5718 on: November 07, 2021, 03:36:09 PM »
Best place to dowload a documentary which was on Kan 11 (Israeli)?

Offline Euclid

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Random questions.
« Reply #5719 on: November 07, 2021, 04:51:01 PM »
Cases are unique but the question applies to all cases. If there is a conflict will you decide by secular or religious law.
It does not get anymore black and white than that.
That's what I'm saying; it's possible there is a (relatively*) blanket ruling, but we (DDF members) aren't aware of it since it's not really applicable all too often.

*(There may be a rabbinical disagreement about it, but that doesn't mean there haven't been blanket rulings.)