Author Topic: Random questions. (Read 986492 times)

mevinyavin · « **Reply #6460 on:** December 03, 2022, 01:17:43 PM »

Quote from: CountValentine on December 02, 2022, 08:43:01 AM

Can someone give me Judaism's view/meaning of Genesis 1:26 and 27?

It is indeed a great question. Whatever the resemblance, we are told that Adam before sin somehow confused the angels - they thought he was God (whatever that means).
R' Berkovits says man alone in all of creation possesses properties of infinity. God is the only being that is truly Infinite - but man is also infinite regarding man's ability to grow. Man is merely in God's image, though, because man cannot grow to be God.

mevinyavin · « **Reply #6461 on:** December 03, 2022, 01:20:40 PM »

Quote from: Dan on December 02, 2022, 09:09:28 AM

What does Moach shalit al halev mean?

One does have to differentiate between ancient Chazal and more modern times, when moach is used instead of lev. In this context (when moach is used for the brain), as I believe someone answered above, lev is used either to refer to emotion or to desire.

Definitions · « **Reply #6462 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:04:12 PM »

On the topic of heart/mind. At times it bothers me and at other times it doesn't.
First to anybody reading - don't assume anything I write here has a source. It doesn't and can be totally opposite of accepted Jewish concepts. I'm just writing what I've thought about in the past.

At times I can stomach it that the heart refers to the mind. At times my toes just don't feel it. When my toes don't feel it, my backup answer is that people in the past did think the heart was the source of thoughts and God isn't a biology teacher and isn't interested in teaching it or correcting anybody either.

Dan · « **Reply #6463 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:24:30 PM »

Quote from: mevinyavin on December 03, 2022, 01:20:40 PM

One does have to differentiate between ancient Chazal and more modern times, when moach is used instead of lev. In this context (when moach is used for the brain), as I believe someone answered above, lev is used either to refer to emotion or to desire.

I'm not comfortable with that explanation. Seems too difficult to fit into the פשוטו של מקרא.

Freddie · « **Reply #6464 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:25:23 PM »

Quote from: Dan on December 02, 2022, 10:10:17 AM

@Freddie Can we get your take here?

וְזֶה כְּלָל גָּדוֹל בַּעֲבוֹדַת ה' לַבֵּינוֹנִים:

הָעִיקָּר, הוּא לִמְשׁוֹל וְלִשְׁלוֹט עַל הַטֶּבַע שֶׁבֶּחָלָל הַשְּׂמָאלִי

עַל יְדֵי אוֹר ה' הַמֵּאִיר לַנֶּפֶשׁ הָאֱלֹהִית שֶׁבַּמּוֹחַ,

...

וְאַהֲבַת ה' בְּלִבּוֹ בֶּחָלָל הַיְמָנִי –

Just trying to understand... we have people here who are comfortable with rejecting the ideas of evolution or the earth going around the sun but who want to find ways to say that the heart is the seat of emotions is not literal? Just checking. I need to know who I am talking to.

Freddie · « **Reply #6465 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:27:32 PM »

I'll make the problem even bigger for you. Not only is the heart the seat of emotion, but some of the intellectual faculties take place there too! As the Zohar says: בינה ליבא ובה הלב מבין

Freddie · « **Reply #6466 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:32:06 PM »

Just to clarify... personally, I take Chazal literally and I have no problems dealing with their model of the human psyche including their conceptualization of the heart as a source of emotion.
For those who feel the need to reconcile with science, I cannot relate. However, as the world gets closer to Moshiach I am sure that science will catch up. For those who are into this kind of thing, I think that possibly the understanding of the role of the vagus nerve may hold a lot of the answers.

EliJelly · « **Reply #6467 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:40:14 PM »

Quote from: Freddie on December 03, 2022, 07:27:32 PM

I'll make the problem even bigger for you. Not only is the heart the seat of emotion, but some of the intellectual faculties take place there too! As the Zohar says: בינה ליבא ובה הלב מבין

It's an open Gemara too, to those who will claim that the Zohar is not to be taken as the literal meaning. The Gemara also says that the kidneys are advising, and both in the context of other body parts when talking of their physical duties.

.ברכות סא

Quote from: EliJelly on December 02, 2022, 09:57:57 AM

And how do you explain the first two of "תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: כְּלָיוֹת יוֹעֲצוֹת, לֵב מֵבִין, לָשׁוֹן מְחַתֵּךְ, פֶּה גּוֹמֵר, וֶשֶׁט מַכְנִיס וּמוֹצִיא כׇּל מִינֵי מַאֲכָל, קָנֶה מוֹצִיא קוֹל"?

Definitions · « **Reply #6468 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:42:44 PM »

I don't have an issue with rejecting evolution. I do have an issue with saying the heart controls emotions or thoughts. I do have an issue with saying the sun revolves around the earth.

Freddie · « **Reply #6469 on:** December 03, 2022, 07:51:09 PM »

Quote from: Definitions on December 03, 2022, 07:42:44 PM

I don't have an issue with rejecting evolution. I do have an issue with saying the heart controls emotions or thoughts. I do have an issue with saying the sun revolves around the earth.

I appreciate the distinction and if I had to guess (although you do not articulate this) it has to do with the difference between a narrative constructed about the unobservable past and a description of something that we can see right now. I think that is a worthy point.

I would say that even when it comes to models for that which is presently observable, human understanding changes. Even the rock solid science of physics is probably just a practically effective model for building bridges but not anywhere near being accurate in the epistemological sense. (And in case you think I am referring to quantum theory, I sort of am but not really because who says that's accurate either.)