Kosher Switch

[ShlockDoc]

+1 That's why it's such an interesting conversation. Figuring out what Shabbos is really.

Exactly.  And it's an interesting role reversal.  Normally the more "charedi" people tell the more "modern" people that it's not about feelings or spirit, it's about halacha.  In this situation the roles are reversed.  Interesting...

[AnonymousUser]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned R' Moshe's issur of timers for anything besides lights. IIRC, the reason was because if you allow timers, one could run an entire factory on Shabbos, and is similar to and is included in Amira L'Akum.

[yitrap]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned R' Moshe's issur of timers for anything besides lights. IIRC, the reason was because if you allow timers, one could run an entire factory on Shabbos, and is included in Amira L'Akum.

Good point,
I remember hearing that if R Moshe had been asked before he would have assered it.

[AnonymousUser]

Good point,
I remember hearing that if R Moshe had been asked before he would have assered it.

Although most poskim don't agree with him regarding timers, there is precedent for the idea.

[aygart]

That feeling is quite subjective to the current state of affairs.
How do you think they felt when they first invented the eruv?

the eruv was not invented ever.

[elit]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned R' Moshe's issur of timers for anything besides lights. IIRC, the reason was because if you allow timers, one could run an entire factory on Shabbos, and is similar to and is included in Amira L'Akum.

Was catching up with this thread and that was bothering me the whole time finally some one mentioned it....thanks! I thought we follow R Moshe regarding this... Though apparently many ppl don't even know about it...

[elit]

Their respect and necessity for out to be halachicklly ok is admirable and refreshing however to get something like this tot be accepted mainstream they will need to go all the way to the top.... Too bad they didn't get R Elyashiv and R Yosef to weigh in.... Who are the undisputed poskei hador now?

[username]

You mean, Goite.

Thats Mrs Moskowitz. Suprised she seemed like such an am ha'aretz.

[Dan]

the eruv was not invented ever.

You think that the eruv in its current form always existed?

Along the centuries Rabbonim created a halachic solution to a new problem...

[aygart]

The eruv in its current form always existed?

The eruv min hatorah was much more lenient than what we have now. The chachomim added numerous different syagim such as eiruvei chatzeiros. When they added these they included leniencies as well. They did not make new ways to be lenient on what the Torah  assured.

[Dan]

The Torah describes courtyards and walls as an eruv...not a string.

[dovy2]

Deff not in the spirit of first mishnas of Avos (which we begin learning this Shabbos) "asu syag latorah"

[aygart]

The Torah describes courtyards and walls as an eruv...not a string.

Not a string but a reed over two reeds. What is the difference. The mishnah also describes ways to make using ropes. These are not inventions. Besides according to many they would not work for a reshus harabim deoraysa anyhow.

[Dan]

Besides according to many they would not work for a reshus harabim deoraysa anyhow.

Is there no eruv in Manhattan?

[avromie7]

Not a string but a reed over two reeds. What is the difference. The mishnah also describes ways to make using ropes. These are not inventions. Besides according to many they would not work for a reshus harabim deoraysa anyhow.

There are some who allow it for a reshus harabim d'oraysa?

[avromie7]

Is there no eruv in Manhattan?

There is a difference between an eruv for one or a few houses and one for many more than that (I don't remember the reasons)

[aygart]

Is there no eruv in Manhattan?

According to many including R Moshe there is not for this reason. Those who hold there is either hold it is not deoraysa or that it is more than tzuras hapesach since it is an island to grossly oversimplify it.

[aygart]

There are some who allow it for a reshus harabim d'oraysa?

Not that I recall but..........

[avromie7]

Is there no eruv in Manhattan?

that's why there is no eruv in boro park

[Dan]

According to many including R Moshe there is not for this reason.

Aha.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ie=UTF8&msa=0&z=12&hl=en&mid=z7K5eCPkfN-M.kljutWhtv8Pw

that's why there is no eruv in boro park

Mamash fascinating.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?msa=0&mid=z8gT_np9Fj6Y.k5HQCdFfaDA4