Lakewood Shabbos rally

[dovy2]

What do these "levels" mean?

[yitrap]

I took it from your post that your siding with  those bashing the rally, if I was wrong sincere apologies, if I was right who are the leaders you are following?

I believe the rally was the wrong thing to do, you seem to think that there are rabonim that actually supported it... Can you name me a few?

[monkey]

Just read the whole thread. Really painful on all sides. I think the reason for the current "rally" is that the issue has grown too large to just "look away". What do you tell your kids when they walk past, Shabbos after Shabbos, and see blatant chillul Shabbos?! Are we really supposed to tolerate chillul Shabbos in public without any kind of response?

I grew up seeing otd teenagers (some were our neighbors) being mechalel shabbos. My parents spoke about it at our shabbos table that they're Jewish kids that unfortunately went otd and we should pray for them and be kind to them. Whenever he passed them he would give a smile and a nice hello and high five. We understood that he didn't agree with their lifestyle and we all learned a major lesson in being a mentch. That's what my parents told me. That's what the parents in lakewood could tell their kids. It will teach the kids a bigger lesson than showing up to one of these protests

[yitrap]

The goal is to discourage those on the fence from joining and to make a statement about how chomur chillul shabbos is.

Seems the goal backfired, try putting yourself into a these kids mindset, for whatever reason it may be they've ended up at the park shabbos afternoon hanging out with people that are not keeping shabbos trying to look up to them and get "in" how would they not break shabbos that week? You're literally twisting their arm to break...
So you'll tell me it's the ones that aren't yet going to the park but thinking about it? I guarantee this doesn't last more then two months and then the kids say to themselves look nothing happened guess it's not that bad after all...I can do it too

[tjak]

I believe the rally was the wrong thing to do, you seem to think that there are rabonim that actually supported it... Can you name me a few?

From my understanding it was backed by the rosh hayeshivas of BMG. You say you are following the side of are leaders can you tell me who they are?

[yitrap]

From my understanding it was backed by the rosh hayeshivas of BMG. You say you are following the side of are leaders can you tell me who they are?

Until I hear it from their mouths I don't believe it.
Sure any Rov who has anything to do with "troubled teens" will tell you they were wrong which is why knowing some of the people that the roshay yeshivas BMG listen to and trust I have a hard time believing that they said it and even if they did say it I would venture to say they weren't explained the whole picture.

[yitrap]

I grew up seeing otd teenagers (some were our neighbors) being mechalel shabbos. My parents spoke about it at our shabbos table that they're Jewish kids that unfortunately went otd and we should pray for them and be kind to them. Whenever he passed them he would give a smile and a nice hello and high five. We understood that he didn't agree with their lifestyle and we all learned a major lesson in being a mentch. That's what my parents told me. That's what the parents in lakewood could tell their kids. It will teach the kids a bigger lesson than showing up to one of these protests

+100000 thats proper chinuch and the way I was raised.

[tjak]

Until I hear it from their mouths I don't believe it.
Sure any Rov who has anything to do with "troubled teens" will tell you they were wrong which is why knowing some of the people that the roshay yeshivas BMG listen to and trust I have a hard time believing that they said it and even if they did say it I would venture to say they weren't explained the whole picture.

Rabbi Chaim Abadi, who, if you know anything about the situation in lakewood , is one of the most involved people in this situation, is actually pro the demonstrations. He told someone "we tried everything including making nice parties for them but they just took the food and drink and went right back. It keeps on getting worse and this is a last resort attempt to, if not eradicate it completely, at least contain it from getting worse".
 For those that dont know who R Abadi is just go to j2 saturday night...

[yitrap]

Until I hear it from their mouths I don't believe it.
Sure any Rov who has anything to do with "troubled teens" will tell you they were wrong which is why knowing some of the people that the roshay yeshivas BMG listen to and trust I have a hard time believing that they said it and even if they did say it I would venture to say they weren't explained the whole picture.

ETA: I don't know anything about this person and I'm sure if he's in J2 every MS he's very dedicated but that quote sounds like someone who has given up or never really cared. (which is why I'd rather not believe it)
One of my Rabbiyum says over that another Rebbi came to him to ask him some tricks, he responded that there is no tricks he just gives love and more love, the person responded "yeah we tried the love thing- it didn't work for us"

[elit]

I feel terrible for their situation especially for the parents siblings etc.
I personally would not attend , (dead sea aint around the corner)
but HOW can you curse out the protesters, and at the same time be silent as these youth slap GD in the face??
you have NO better solution . these ppl think this may help .
SHUT YOUR MOUTH

You say so many horrible things i dint know where to start?? All i am going to say is what i have been saying before I'm not sure who is sleeping gd in the face more....

[elit]

I once heard an interesting thought in regards to the many macho's made in eretz yisroel about chillul shabbos. The purpose is not to change the action of those being mechallel shabbos but to make sure that one does not become desensitized to the big deal that it is.

Please...how about being desensitized to the pain, suffering, and needs of other children. Don't see then worrying about that

[yitrap]

Please...how about being desensitized to the pain, suffering, and needs of other children. Don't see then worrying about that

Machos in ey are generally about chilonim more then kids in the park...

[elit]

Machos in ey are generally about chilonim more then kids in the park...

I was responding to the application to here not that this are much better

[yitrap]

I was responding to the application to here not that this are much better

Oh definitely doesn't apply here.

[Achas Veachas]

if these kids got together and raped passer byes , ...
would avromie7 be proudly saying , he is on level6 ?

You and Meshugener with your rape fantasies...

If they were raping passers by there would be no demonstrations necessary, the police would be on the case, how you equate that to Chillul Shabbos is a mystery...

[elit]

Oh definitely doesn't apply here.

Oh ok thought that's what you were saying

[tjak]

ETA: I don't know anything about this person and I'm sure if he's in J2 every MS he's very dedicated but that quote sounds like someone who has given up or never really cared. (which is why I'd rather not believe it)
One of my Rabbiyum says over that another Rebbi came to him to ask him some tricks, he responded that there is no tricks he just gives love and more love, the person responded "yeah we tried the love thing- it didn't work for us"

Why is that giving up? He's just a realist, and knows that showing love will never stop the chillul shabbos in such a public venue. And the goal here is not to help the kids it's to stop the chillul shabbos in public. And the problem you have that doing this might push them away farther is not for me and you to decide which one overrides, that has to be left to das Torah to which my understanding they had here. And if you don't want to believe there was das Torah till Reb Makiel Kotler tells you personally, I can't help you understand this any better.

[Achas Veachas]

A couple quick thoughts, against my better judgment:
1) Ask your LOR if you're allowed to watch those video's. Presumably there was chilul shabbos involved in filming it.

+1
The reason I didn't watch the videos.

[Achas Veachas]

i do NOT hate chabad! that is hurtfull speech . i love all frum yidden !
especially freddie who tenaciously defends the truth as he sees it .
just because he is wrong on some matters means I hate him?

With such friends....

[yitrap]

Why is that giving up? He's just a realist, and knows that showing love will never stop the chillul shabbos in such a public venue. And the goal here is not to help the kids it's to stop the chillul shabbos in public. And the problem you have that doing this might push them away farther is not for me and you to decide which one overrides, that has to be left to das Torah to which my understanding they had here. And if you don't want to believe there was das Torah till Reb Makiel Kotler tells you personally, I can't help you understand this any better.

It's giving up to switch from being a loving person and making things for them to making a rally and marching past them (or shows that the original face was a fake)
You're wrong though and if he believes that so is he, these kids are way more stubborn and most of them have nothing to lose - they will definitely outlast them at this game and they will win. I agree that there may be a concept of Chayecha Kodmim and if we are left with no option but to push them away to protect ourselves then Das Torah would tell us that but there are many many more options and we aren't even dealing with an issue of Chayecha Kodmim cause with proper Chinuch you wouldn't have to worry about your own children seeing this.

I don't have an issue listening to Das Torah, I have an issue listening to people claiming they are quoting Das Torah - something that unfortunately happens way too often