Author Topic: Lakewood Shabbos rally (Read 152911 times)

asd · « **Reply #220 on:** May 18, 2015, 09:38:53 AM »

Quote from: asd on May 17, 2015, 07:18:54 PM

The so called experts had their chance and failed miserably, now its time to isolate them

I take back what I wrote about the experts, they are leshaim shamayim and are doing great work. I apologize from the bottom of my heart.

tjak · « **Reply #221 on:** May 18, 2015, 09:40:05 AM »

Quote from: yitrap on May 18, 2015, 08:36:26 AM

You don't taunt your child about the fact that you kicked him out, the protest whatever way you cut it is not an expression of love it's the opposite and if any of them heard that he backs it they would lose all form of trust he ever had with them.

They may have gone there cause it was a good place to chill but most of these kids are angry rebellious stubborn kids, it may be way easier to go OTD today but it still takes courage and character and I will put money down they outlast the protests just to spite.

You're making a Machoe that you don't want your sheltered kids to see people being mechalel shabbos by bringing them to a park where people are being mechalel shabbos to teach them how holy shabbos is (while indirectly teaching them that they are bad people that should be shunned) why not just sit them down and teach them how special shabbos is...

The protest is not comparable to taunting a kid after you throw him out its comparable to the actual throwing out. And no it's not an expression of love but it sometimes comes down to doing things you don't want to do.
As I said being rebellious in the same way is not fun after a couple times. They'll move on as soon as they see these kumzitses are happening every week and it's not a place to chill anymore.
They're making a Moche to show their children chillul shabbos doesn't go unanswered. And maybe if you carefully explain the situation to your kid before you go in that these teens are troubled and going thru a hard time and even though we love them we still have to be Moche what their doing because they're not doing the will of g-d, that's the right way to handle it. And I say maybe because I am no master in the chinuch field.
It's very hard to teach someone how special shabbos is when people they know are openly defying it, and going unanswered.

aygart · « **Reply #222 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:02:07 AM »

Quote from: yitrap on May 18, 2015, 07:10:18 AM

ETA: I don't know anything about this person and I'm sure if he's in J2 every MS he's very dedicated but that quote sounds like someone who has given up or never really cared. (which is why I'd rather not believe it)
One of my Rabbiyum says over that another Rebbi came to him to ask him some tricks, he responded that there is no tricks he just gives love and more love, the person responded "yeah we tried the love thing- it didn't work for us"

it is quite apparent that you don't know anything about him, or the local situation for that matter.

aygart · « **Reply #223 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:05:38 AM »

Quote from: yitrap on May 18, 2015, 07:06:33 AM

Until I hear it from their mouths I don't believe it.
Sure any Rov who has anything to do with "troubled teens" will tell you they were wrong which is why knowing some of the people that the roshay yeshivas BMG listen to and trust I have a hard time believing that they said it and even if they did say it I would venture to say they weren't explained the whole picture.

From what I have heard they were participants

Baruch · « **Reply #224 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:08:18 AM »

Quote from: Cowboysuk on May 18, 2015, 04:03:54 AM

Rabbi Chaim Abadi, who, if you know anything about the situation in lakewood , is one of the most involved people in this situation, is actually pro the demonstrations. He told someone "we tried everything including making nice parties for them but they just took the food and drink and went right back. It keeps on getting worse and this is a last resort attempt to, if not eradicate it completely, at least contain it from getting worse".
For those that dont know who R Abadi is just go to j2 saturday night...

@avromie7, I'm still waiting for your response..............

The Rosh Yeshivas of Lakewood signed a letter to go. Did you read their letter? They addressed many of your concerns.

P.S. I personally didn't go because of many of the reasons @avromie7 is posting. But I'm not cursing out the people who went as heartless kanaim. The Rabbanim and experts in town decided after years of this going on, that they can't have a gathering of public chillul shabbos anymore. I don't think they think these rallies are helping these kids. They are trying to peacefully push them away from the lake.
I for 1, couldn't get myself to go, but who said I was right? Maybe there's a time, when it's for the greater good of the community, you can risk disenfranchising these kids further?

Moshe123 · « **Reply #225 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:08:33 AM »

I recently heard Rabbi Wallerstein (Nobody can blame him for not caring) making a very valid point at a Kiruv convention. For all that we talk about what parents or teachers did wrong that might have caused it, we forget that many times we should just blame the kids themselves and their yetzer hara.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we don't have to deal with it.

avromie7 · « **Reply #226 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:09:42 AM »

Quote from: aygart on May 18, 2015, 10:05:38 AM

From what I have heard they were participants

The truth is that for a while already RYU would go to the lake and speak to them which is beautiful until this started...

aygart · « **Reply #227 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:14:44 AM »

Quote from: avromie7 on May 18, 2015, 10:09:42 AM

The truth is that for a while already RYU would go to the lake and speak to them which is beautiful until this started...

Apparently they feel something is different now...

PTU · « **Reply #228 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:16:09 AM »

The poor, sad lost puppy does eventually turn into a ferocious mangy street dog.

Enough said.

avromie7 · « **Reply #229 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:17:50 AM »

Quote from: Baruch on May 18, 2015, 10:08:18 AM

@avromie7, I'm still waiting for your response..............

The Rosh Yeshivas of Lakewood signed a letter to go. Did you read their letter? They addressed many of your concerns.

P.S. I personally didn't go because of many of the reasons @avromie7 is posting. But I'm not cursing out the people who went as heartless kanaim. The Rabbanim and experts in town decided after years of this going on, that they can't have a gathering of public chillul shabbos anymore. I don't think they think these rallies are helping these kids. They are trying to peacefully push them away from the lake.
I for 1, couldn't get myself to go, but who said I was right? Maybe there's a time, when it's for the greater good of the community, you can risk disenfranchising these kids further?

I don't have time today but I'll give a quick answer
AFAIK there was never a letter with their signature on it

Sport · « **Reply #230 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:18:51 AM »

Quote from: Moshe123 on May 18, 2015, 10:08:33 AM

I recently heard Rabbi Wallerstein (Nobody can blame him for not caring) making a very valid point at a Kiruv convention. For all that we talk about what parents or teachers did wrong that might have caused it, we forget that many times we should just blame the kids themselves and their yetzer hara.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we don't have to deal with it.

Unfortunately, the more prominent sentiment amongst the general public is to blame the kids and their y"h. Otherwise we shoukd be seeing changes in our chinuch system.

Baruch · « **Reply #231 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:19:36 AM »

Quote from: avromie7 on May 18, 2015, 10:17:50 AM

I don't have time today but I'll give a quick answer
AFAIK there was never a letter with their signature on it

I read the letter with their signatures. It was hung up on Friday in many BMG batei medrash.

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #232 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:24:59 AM »

Quote from: Sport on May 18, 2015, 10:18:51 AM

Unfortunately, the more prominent sentiment amongst the general public is to blame the kids and their y"h. Otherwise we shoukd be seeing changes in our chinuch system.

The popuar sentiment is that the parents somehow failed the kids and if they would have loved/disciplined/hugged/spanked (cross out what doesn't fit) them more this wouldn't have happened. What they don't realize is that the problem is the kids' YH, any reforms in Chinuch should be aimed at teaching kids how to deal with an evolving YH in this evolving world we live in.

Sport · « **Reply #233 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:29:02 AM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2015, 10:24:59 AM

The popuar sentiment is that the parents somehow failed the kids and if they would have loved/disciplined/hugged/spanked (cross out what doesn't fit) them more this wouldn't have happened. What they don't realize is that the problem is the kids' YH, any reforms in Chinuch should be aimed at teaching kids how to deal with an evolving YH in this evolving world we live in.

I disagree. Perhaps amongst the chinuch "experts" this is the popular sentiment. But your average joe on the street does not see it this way.

aygart · « **Reply #234 on:** May 18, 2015, 10:32:36 AM »

Quote from: Sport on May 18, 2015, 10:18:51 AM

Unfortunately, the more prominent sentiment amongst the general public is to blame the kids and their y"h. Otherwise we shoukd be seeing changes in our chinuch system.

Quote from: Achas Veachas on May 18, 2015, 10:24:59 AM

The popuar sentiment is that the parents somehow failed the kids and if they would have loved/disciplined/hugged/spanked (cross out what doesn't fit) them more this wouldn't have happened. What they don't realize is that the problem is the kids' YH, any reforms in Chinuch should be aimed at teaching kids how to deal with an evolving YH in this evolving world we live in.

Quote from: Sport on May 18, 2015, 10:29:02 AM