Lakewood Shabbos rally

[Aj3042]

Not sure what you are saying. This was a protest. It was the very definition of a peaceful one.

Indeed. What have things come to that a peaceful protest of regular chillul shabbos gets attacked for being insensitive? Fellows this is public chillul shabbos it's serious business. These people have special dinim in Halacha and it's not something to be taken lightly. You can disagree with the protesters methods but you can't dismiss or attack them. There comes a point where people have to stop beating around the bush. Enough of the pacifism-it has its place and this isn't it.

[Freddie]

Singing next to them is aggressive?

Confrontational, yes.

[Freddie]

Indeed. What have things come to that a peaceful protest of regular chillul shabbos gets attacked for being insensitive? Fellows this is public chillul shabbos it's serious business. These people have special dinim in Halacha and it's not something to be taken lightly. You can disagree with the protesters methods but you can't dismiss or attack them. There comes a point where people have to stop beating around the bush. Enough of the pacifism-it has its place and this isn't it.

Oh, suddenly you know what the dinim are. I suppose you're referring to moridin v'ein maalin at the end of Choshen Mishpat. And if that's really what you think, then the entire spirit of the "protest/rally/kumzitz" is b'etzem aggressive, violent, and threatening.

[elit]

Indeed. What have things come to that a peaceful protest of regular chillul shabbos gets attacked for being insensitive? Fellows this is public chillul shabbos it's serious business. These people have special dinim in Halacha and it's not something to be taken lightly. You can disagree with the protesters methods but you can't dismiss or attack them. There comes a point where people have to stop beating around the bush. Enough of the pacifism-it has its place and this isn't it.

Pls share these dinim with us?

[elit]

It's very hard to teach someone how special shabbos is when people they know are openly defying it, and going unanswered.

Really, that's why your kids don't appreciate how special shabbos . I'm sure this week shabbos in lakewood iselin to be something else... Bc it had nothing to do with how their own parents feel about and treat shabbos....
These arguments are so pathetic but it dues help highlight how sing it is

[Aj3042]

Oh, suddenly you know what the dinim are. I suppose you're referring to moridin v'ein maalin at the end of Choshen Mishpat. And if that's really what you think, then the entire spirit of the "protest/rally/kumzitz" is b'etzem aggressive, violent, and threatening.

No I'm referring to their dinim like in terms of shechitah that they have the din of goyim that their shechitah is pasul.
And all I'm saying is that this is serious stuff. When someone has a din of a goy there's more to it than apologetics. Even if it's caused by "XYZ" when there's something this serious going on in a community they have every right (maybe even obligation) to protest it.

[Freddie]

No I'm referring to their dinim like in terms of shechitah that they have the din of goyim that their shechitah is pasul.
And all I'm saying is that this is serious stuff. When someone has a din of a goy there's more to it than apologetics. Even if it's caused by "XYZ" when there's something this serious going on in a community they have every right (maybe even obligation) to protest it.

Nu, so don't eat their shechita.

[Aj3042]

Oh, suddenly you know what the dinim are. I suppose you're referring to moridin v'ein maalin at the end of Choshen Mishpat. And if that's really what you think, then the entire spirit of the "protest/rally/kumzitz" is b'etzem aggressive, violent, and threatening.

In fact they're no that obscure look and you shall find. For starters-not metzaref to minyan, pasul shechitah.

[Menachem613]

In fact they're no that obscure look and you shall find. For starters-not metzaref to minyan, pasul shechitah.

So these kids are trying to be part of your minyan? How terrible.

[Aj3042]

Nu, so don't eat their shechita.

That's not the point. They're grouped with idol worshipers and people who eat treif להכעיס. Public chillul shabbos is one of the most severe aveiros in the Torah, enough to classify such people together with idol worshipers. That's serious. That's not the place for excuses and reasons. If they were being מזנה with עריות in public what would your reaction be-keep it up? Well this is even worse.

[elit]

That's not the point. They're grouped with idol worshipers and people who eat treif להכעיס. Public chillul shabbos is one of the most severe aveiros in the Torah, enough to classify such people together with idol worshipers. That's serious. That's not the place for excuses and reasons. If they were being מזנה with עריות in public what would your reaction be-keep it up? Well this is even worse.

Do these halachos apply to a nirdaf?

[Aj3042]

Do these halachos apply to a nirdaf?

Not sure what a nirdaf has to do with this. If you mean that someone is forcing him on penalty of death then no (at least in some cases). If not then absolutely yes. There are no excuses in halacha (he was abused etc etc). It's perfectly clear cut and even when the excuse makes sense to you (which I admit sometimes it does) it makes zero difference. Public chillul shabbos (in front of yidden) is a red line that must never be crossed.

[yesitsme]

Can someone please help me differentiate between this and Massey Zimry?

[Aj3042]

Can someone please help me differentiate between this and Massey Zimry?

Yes. The din of קנאין פוגעין בו (in effect a death penalty in the hands of the public) doesn't apply. That's where the difference starts and ends. Both are otherwise intentional mockeries of the most serious aveiros.

[Chuck2]

Why Teens Go Off the Derech
http://daniel-granovetter.weebly.com/why-teens-go-off-the-derech.html

[avromie7]

Yes. The din of קנאין פוגעין בו (in effect a death penalty in the hands of the public) doesn't apply. That's where the difference starts and ends. Both are otherwise intentional mockeries of the most serious aveiros.

I wonder if you are also including the 11 year old kids in this

[coralsnake]

In fact they're no that obscure look and you shall find. For starters-not metzaref to minyan, pasul shechitah.

However according to most, they can still do bircas kohanim, assuming they're a kohen of course.

[Sport]

Can someone please help me differentiate between this and Massey Zimry?

Yes. The din of קנאין פוגעין בו (in effect a death penalty in the hands of the public) doesn't apply. That's where the difference starts and ends. Both are otherwise intentional mockeries of the most serious aveiros.

Are you serious!?

[Achas Veachas]

This whole discussion is meaningless, until the age of 20 there is no Din of עונשין...

[elit]

Not sure what a nirdaf has to do with this. If you mean that someone is forcing him on penalty of death then no (at least in some cases). If not then absolutely yes. There are no excuses in halacha (he was abused etc etc). It's perfectly clear cut and even when the excuse makes sense to you (which I admit sometimes it does) it makes zero difference. Public chillul shabbos (in front of yidden) is a red line that must never be crossed.

There's no excuses for what halacha? As freddi succinctly highlighted we,re not eating their shcita, relying on their eidus,... So what are you applying this to? The right to give tochacha? Make a macha? Speak lashon harah? I would venture tob
 say for those nirdaf has everything to do with it