Lakewood Shabbos rally

[Aj3042]

I want to go next shabbos to view the anti-frum Vs frum rally.
Should be a real kiddush hashem.

Good you now have 3 days of shabbos/yom tov to be mechalel l'toeles and fulfill the supreme mitzvah of kiruv.

[Aj3042]

For someone that was adamant about not bringing emotions into a logical argument..

Huh? I'm busy planning a DO and I wasn't planning on making it too emotional.

[Sport]

do any of you actually believe that it is pikuach nefesh in the sense that it is doche kol hatorah?

And you're equating not agreeing with that as "bending halacha" !?

[yesitsme]

How are we/they preparing for this coming shabbos, it's already Thursday, any kol korahs went up yet?

[Ergel]

This is actually the tin man. Or is the gold man?
Do you know how to talk on the point or is talking about straw your thing?

How'd you guess? I actually eat straw for breakfast every day.

Kind of silly to get involved in this argument if my words will get twisted every time.

[aygart]

@Aj3042 I am totally not following this thread, but you are saying people are willing to break halacha when all they are saying is you shouldn't protest. You are adding things to other peoples logic that doesn't exist.

It's like me saying Aj thinks protesting is good so he also thinks that punching them is good, but punching is against halacha, so Aj is wrong and no one can explain why he's not.

Maybe because no one holds that, and that's why no one is answering your questions, you made them up.

He was replying to what 1+1 wrote

a) Pikuach Nefesh always superseded the whole Torah.

On which he asked

Pikuach nefesh? What shaychas?

and they answered

Ummmm we should try to save these kids spiritual lives

Yes , according to reb Eliyashiv and reb shtienman (to name a few) Its "Pushot Pikuach Nefesh".  Not that we really need them to confirm such an obvious fact

That would seem to mean that they feel that helping OTD kids supersedes the whole Torah. I don't think any of them actually beleive that and therefore THEY are making a straw man with the pikuach nefesh argument.

[Ergel]

True. It is definitely ridiculous to suggest that this is pikuach nefesh and is doneh shabbos

[Aj3042]

He was replying to what 1+1 wroteOn which he askedand they answeredThat would seem to mean that they feel that helping OTD kids supersedes the whole Torah. I don't think any of them actually beleive that and therefore THEY are making a straw man with the pikuach nefesh argument.

Good points? Anyone?

True. It is definitely ridiculous to suggest that this is pikuach nefesh and is doneh shabbos

So we finally agree on something which a few minutes ago was actually being debated, believe it or not,

[yitrap]

He was replying to what 1+1 wroteOn which he askedand they answeredThat would seem to mean that they feel that helping OTD kids supersedes the whole Torah. I don't think any of them actually beleive that and therefore THEY are making a straw man with the pikuach nefesh argument.

This post for sure took too much work

[yitrap]

So we finally agree on something which a few minutes ago was actually being debated, believe it or not,

No it wasn't come on

[Dan]

No it wasn't come on

There's no point arguing with a straw man.

[Aj3042]

There's no point arguing with a straw man.

Indeed.

I don't think any of them actually beleive that and therefore THEY are making a straw man with the pikuach nefesh argument.

[yakrot]

I want to go next shabbos to view the anti-frum Vs frum rally.
Should be a real kiddush hashem.

You can make a shabbos DO protesting the protest

[Sport]

Im dizzy

[grodnoking]

Im dizzy

+1

[yitrap]

Im dizzy

I can get you some cannabis for medicinal purposes if you'd like...

[Dan]

Im dizzy

[Aj3042]

I can get you some cannabis for medicinal purposes if you'd like...

Haha

[Sport]

I can get you some cannabis for medicinal purposes if you'd like...

Great, meet you in the park by the lake.

[jj1000]

No what I'm saying is that if protesting public chillul shabbos done to flaunt is is a good thing then the fact that it will anger OTD teens is irrelevant.

So the argument is really coming down to is the protest a good thing.

It seems you are not taking the OTD's into consideration, while the others are taking them into consideration.

Others are saying the protest itself is a bad thing because it will cause OTD's to go off even more. If the argument starts there you can understand why halacha has nothing to do with this argument it is a question of hashkafa and if you look at ll yidden as one and there aveira is my aveira, or do we care for our kids and don't care about pushing the OTD's away even more.

Also there is a difference of having a halachik status of pikuach nefesh or looking at a situation as so dire it is like pikuac nefesh and you should do everything in your power within the context of halacha to help with that situation.

I am sorry if you weren't explained that last point well, but it just takes some common sense to figure it out.

I believe this answers all of your questions.

(ETA: I think it all comes down to you are only looking at it from your kids perspective while others are also taking into consideration the OTD's, if you see that I think you'll be more comfortable with the disagreement here.)