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I hear both sides. While I am fairly certain that this will ultimately have a negative effect on the kids that were there, I understand that this protest was never intended to be for their benefit but rather to protest against public chilul shabbos. Is that a fair trade-off?

I did speak with a rabbi who I consider to be one of the world's foremost experts on helping OTD kids (and I have personal experience with way too many of them), and he was vehemently against it. He felt that a protest like this will cause significantly more kids to go off, as it now created an us-vs-them mentality that until now only simmered below the surface but is now being forced on them.

12 years ago I was ordered to leave Lakewood because of a (in hindsight) very trivial incident. Do you know what that type of ostracization does to an angry teenager? It makes them angrier and more eager to do the things that caused them to be ostracized in the first place. Some of these kids may have been only testing the waters, hanging out with friends who are much more brazen than them right now. Now they feel like they there's no return. Some of these kids have friends that they will now convince to join them who otherwise were only being mechalel shabbos behind closed doors. There are plenty of kids who are currently in yeshiva and looking the part, but also engaging in all forms of illicit activities including drugs and chilul shabbos. Many of these kids will now feel emboldened to join a "community" of like minded kids. Etc etc etc.

Chop off the limb to save the body, I get that concept even if I don't agree with it. But what about anything connected to that limb? This has consequences reaching far beyond the kids that were physically being mechalel shabbos at the  lake, and I don't think anyone thought about this beyond how it would affect the protesters and the protestees.

My 2 cents.

Lakewood shabbos DO (singing kah echsof in the park, while smoking electric cigarettes using a shabbos switch

Confirmed:
Grodnoking (Need a shabbos switch for my Ecig, who can bring one?)

Probable:

Impossible:
henche


תניא פרק ל"ב

ומ"ש בגמ' שמי שרואה בחבירו שחטא מצוה לשנאותו וגם לומר לרבו שישנאהו. היינו בחבירו בתורה ומצות וכבר קיים בו מצות הוכח תוכיח את עמיתך עם שאתך בתורה ובמצות ואעפ"כ לא שב מחטאו כמ"ש בס' חרדים

 אבל מי שאינו חבירו ואינו מקורב אצלו הנה ע"ז אמר הלל הזקן הוי מתלמידיו של אהרן אוהב שלום וכו' אוהב את הבריות ומקרבן לתורה. לומר שאף הרחוקים מתורת ה' ועבודתו ולכן נקראי' בשם בריות בעלמא צריך למשכן בחבלי עבותו' אהבה וכולי האי ואולי יוכל לקרבן לתורה ועבודת ה' והן לא לא הפסיד שכר מצות אהבת ריעים

וגם המקורבים אליו והוכיחם ולא שבו מעונותיהם שמצוה לשנאותם מצוה לאהבם ג"כ ושתיהן הן אמת שנאה מצד הרע שבהם ואהבה מצד בחי' הטוב הגנוז שבהם שהוא ניצוץ אלקות שבתוכם המחיה נפשם האלקית וגם לעורר רחמים בלבו עליה כי היא בבחי' גלות בתוך הרע מס"א הגובר עליה ברשעי' והרחמנות מבטלת השנאה ומעוררת האהבה כנודע ממ"ש ליעקב אשר פדה את אברהם [ולא אמר דה"עה תכלית שנאה שנאתים וגו' אלא על המינים והאפיקורסים שאין להם חלק באלהי ישראל כדאיתא בגמרא ר"פ ט"ז דשבת]:

« Last edited by yesitsme on May 21, 2015, 12:17:47 PM »

Author Topic: Lakewood Shabbos rally  (Read 150477 times)

Offline PTU

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #980 on: June 11, 2015, 10:02:05 PM »

Offline PTU

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #981 on: June 11, 2015, 10:02:27 PM »

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #982 on: June 11, 2015, 10:14:11 PM »
I can't read any of that
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Freddie

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #983 on: June 11, 2015, 10:16:55 PM »
Are those the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Offline yitrap

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #984 on: June 11, 2015, 10:17:17 PM »

Offline yakrot

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #985 on: June 11, 2015, 10:20:41 PM »
Can you at least tell us what magazine that's in so we can find it ourselves

Offline yitrap

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #986 on: June 11, 2015, 10:24:06 PM »
Can you at least tell us what magazine that's in so we can find it ourselves
Voice, it's on the bottom of one of the pictures

Offline Baruch

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #987 on: June 11, 2015, 10:25:54 PM »
I can read it perfectly, besides for the first picture.

Offline PTU

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #988 on: June 11, 2015, 10:32:41 PM »
I can't read any of that

Are those the Dead Sea Scrolls?

+1
That's my new, slow and blind moto e    

Can someone please direct me to where I can purchase a decent Android at a reasonable price?

(No need to take the whole thread OT though...)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #989 on: June 11, 2015, 10:33:30 PM »
That's my new, slow and blind moto e    

Can someone please direct me to where I can purchase a decent Android at a reasonable price?

(No need to take the whole thread OT though...)
Oneplus.net
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #990 on: June 11, 2015, 10:33:37 PM »
Which carrier?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #991 on: June 11, 2015, 10:36:49 PM »
Also, which issue of the Voice? They put it on their website,  but it seems that the latest isn't up yet.

Offline yitrap

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #992 on: June 11, 2015, 10:51:16 PM »

Also, which issue of the Voice? They put it on their website,  but it seems that the latest isn't up yet.
Today's

Offline PTU

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #993 on: June 11, 2015, 10:53:11 PM »

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #994 on: June 11, 2015, 11:23:48 PM »
Sorry, I'm not up on AT&T phones.

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #995 on: June 11, 2015, 11:27:32 PM »
Anyhow, here's their site, they should put it up soon:

http://thevoiceoflakewood.com/

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #996 on: June 11, 2015, 11:28:14 PM »
Oneplus.net

Att
it's a unlocked gsm cell,
they lowered the rates, and preparing for the next model
["-"]

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #997 on: June 12, 2015, 08:16:40 AM »
it's a unlocked gsm cell,
they lowered the rates, and preparing for the next model
The 16 g one is OOS.


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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #998 on: June 12, 2015, 08:22:09 AM »
The 16 g one is OOS.


Its not worth getting 16gb because it doesn't have an SD slot
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #999 on: June 12, 2015, 08:34:51 AM »
Its not worth getting 16gb because it doesn't have an SD slot
Also, it's OOS. :)