Lakewood Shabbos rally

[yitrap]

Anyone with a pic of the BMG signed letter?

+1

[avromie7]

I got both of these neither are signed

[Ergel]

Was R' Yerucham present this past shabbos?

[AnonymousUser]

A couple quick thoughts, against my better judgment:
1) Ask your LOR if you're allowed to watch those video's. Presumably there was chilul shabbos involved in filming it.

I didn't ask a posek, but I looked it up in the Mishnah Berurah (סי' שיח). If a Jew was מבשל בשבת, even במזיד, it is מותר for someone else to have הנאה immediately after Shabbos.

Was R' Yerucham present this past shabbos?

IIRC, you can see him in one of the videos.

[Yehuda57]

Without getting into the arguments on this thread, I believe that there a number of truly shameful issues at play which are objectively beyond any sort of tolerance or acceptance form both sides.

1) When you take a video with your phone, hold it horizontally, and for goodness sake, don't switch in the middle. The videos are abhorrent.
2) A few hundred people together and all you can manage is to croak out what sounds like a handful of half a sleep drones? Come on. You have a big group, at least make the songs sound good.

[Ergel]

Without getting into the arguments on this thread, I believe that there a number of truly shameful issues at play which are objectively beyond any sort of tolerance or acceptance form both sides.

1) When you take a video with your phone, hold it horizontally, and for goodness sake, don't switch in the middle. The videos are abhorrent.
2) A few hundred people together and all you can manage is to croak out what sounds like a handful of half a sleep drones? Come on. You have a big group, at least make the songs sound good.

You really got to the core of the issue with this post

[Shmelly]

I recently heard Rabbi Wallerstein (Nobody can blame him for not caring) making a very valid point at a Kiruv convention. For all that we talk about what parents or teachers did wrong that might have caused it, we forget  that many times we should just blame the kids themselves and their yetzer hara.

Which Wallerstein said this?

[aygart]

You really got to the core of the issue with this post

It does show a lack of seriousness on both sides......

[Shmelly]

Without getting into the arguments on this thread, I believe that there a number of truly shameful issues at play which are objectively beyond any sort of tolerance or acceptance form both sides.

1) When you take a video with your phone, hold it horizontally, and for goodness sake, don't switch in the middle. The videos are abhorrent.

Someone should start an organization addressing this egregious act. Education is sorely needed.

[yesitsme]

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/311945/today-atzeres-tefilla-in-ashdod-against-chilul-shabbos.html

Organizers stress that Ashdod Chief Rabbi HaGaon HaRav Yosef Sheinin announces the event is an atzeres tefilla, not a protest rally. He explains that Maran HaGaon HaRav Aaron Yehuda Leib Shteinman Shlita objects to protests, but does encourage holding an atzeres tefilla.

[flyingace]

I grew up seeing otd teenagers (some were our neighbors) being mechalel shabbos. My parents spoke about it at our shabbos table that they're Jewish kids that unfortunately went otd and we should pray for them and be kind to them. Whenever he passed them he would give a smile and a nice hello and high five. We understood that he didn't agree with their lifestyle and we all learned a major lesson in being a mentch. That's what my parents told me. That's what the parents in lakewood could tell their kids. It will teach the kids a bigger lesson than showing up to one of these protests

Of course, that's what you teach your children about OTD neighbors, relatives, etc. It seems, though that a line has been crossed and this population is more of a movement than just some misguided angry kids. It has morphed into a lifestyle that seems to demand that we accept their path in life without any objections.
Protesting against blatant chillul Shabbos does not equal hating or marginalizing individuals in pain.

[yakrot]

[Menachem613]

Therein lies the problem....

+1

[PTU]

Of course, that's what you teach your children about OTD neighbors, relatives, etc. It seems, though that a line has been crossed and this population is more of a movement than just some misguided angry kids. It has morphed into a lifestyle that seems to demand that we accept their path in life without any objections.
Protesting against blatant chillul Shabbos does not equal hating or marginalizing individuals in pain.

Exactly. The point is that these kids are now demanding that we "be chilled and accepting" (words I heard today from a kid) They are expecting that we accept zenus and chillul shabbos befarhesya lehachis.

We don't have to be chilled and accepting to this extent.

Btw I hear that shvous night there may be some action planned around yeshiva............... Video will be posted
RCL.

[thaber]

I don't see how what happened shabbos fulfilled the mandate of the letter

[rileywiles23]

What does this letter have to do with singing in their faces on Shabbos ?

[Menachem613]

What does this letter have to do with singing in their faces on Shabbos ?

It actually implies the opposite.

[PTU]

What does this letter have to do with singing in their faces on Shabbos ?

Singing next to them is aggressive?

[Menachem613]

Singing next to them is aggressive?

Imagine it was done to you by people of a different faith. Would you find it charming or aggressive?

[PTU]

Imagine it was done to you by people of a different faith. Would you find it charming or aggressive?

Not sure what you are saying. This was a protest. It was the very definition of a peaceful one.