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I hear both sides. While I am fairly certain that this will ultimately have a negative effect on the kids that were there, I understand that this protest was never intended to be for their benefit but rather to protest against public chilul shabbos. Is that a fair trade-off?

I did speak with a rabbi who I consider to be one of the world's foremost experts on helping OTD kids (and I have personal experience with way too many of them), and he was vehemently against it. He felt that a protest like this will cause significantly more kids to go off, as it now created an us-vs-them mentality that until now only simmered below the surface but is now being forced on them.

12 years ago I was ordered to leave Lakewood because of a (in hindsight) very trivial incident. Do you know what that type of ostracization does to an angry teenager? It makes them angrier and more eager to do the things that caused them to be ostracized in the first place. Some of these kids may have been only testing the waters, hanging out with friends who are much more brazen than them right now. Now they feel like they there's no return. Some of these kids have friends that they will now convince to join them who otherwise were only being mechalel shabbos behind closed doors. There are plenty of kids who are currently in yeshiva and looking the part, but also engaging in all forms of illicit activities including drugs and chilul shabbos. Many of these kids will now feel emboldened to join a "community" of like minded kids. Etc etc etc.

Chop off the limb to save the body, I get that concept even if I don't agree with it. But what about anything connected to that limb? This has consequences reaching far beyond the kids that were physically being mechalel shabbos at the  lake, and I don't think anyone thought about this beyond how it would affect the protesters and the protestees.

My 2 cents.

Lakewood shabbos DO (singing kah echsof in the park, while smoking electric cigarettes using a shabbos switch

Confirmed:
Grodnoking (Need a shabbos switch for my Ecig, who can bring one?)

Probable:

Impossible:
henche


תניא פרק ל"ב

ומ"ש בגמ' שמי שרואה בחבירו שחטא מצוה לשנאותו וגם לומר לרבו שישנאהו. היינו בחבירו בתורה ומצות וכבר קיים בו מצות הוכח תוכיח את עמיתך עם שאתך בתורה ובמצות ואעפ"כ לא שב מחטאו כמ"ש בס' חרדים

 אבל מי שאינו חבירו ואינו מקורב אצלו הנה ע"ז אמר הלל הזקן הוי מתלמידיו של אהרן אוהב שלום וכו' אוהב את הבריות ומקרבן לתורה. לומר שאף הרחוקים מתורת ה' ועבודתו ולכן נקראי' בשם בריות בעלמא צריך למשכן בחבלי עבותו' אהבה וכולי האי ואולי יוכל לקרבן לתורה ועבודת ה' והן לא לא הפסיד שכר מצות אהבת ריעים

וגם המקורבים אליו והוכיחם ולא שבו מעונותיהם שמצוה לשנאותם מצוה לאהבם ג"כ ושתיהן הן אמת שנאה מצד הרע שבהם ואהבה מצד בחי' הטוב הגנוז שבהם שהוא ניצוץ אלקות שבתוכם המחיה נפשם האלקית וגם לעורר רחמים בלבו עליה כי היא בבחי' גלות בתוך הרע מס"א הגובר עליה ברשעי' והרחמנות מבטלת השנאה ומעוררת האהבה כנודע ממ"ש ליעקב אשר פדה את אברהם [ולא אמר דה"עה תכלית שנאה שנאתים וגו' אלא על המינים והאפיקורסים שאין להם חלק באלהי ישראל כדאיתא בגמרא ר"פ ט"ז דשבת]:

« Last edited by yesitsme on May 21, 2015, 12:17:47 PM »

Author Topic: Lakewood Shabbos rally  (Read 152478 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #460 on: May 20, 2015, 01:16:30 PM »
Didnt say either was unfathomable but unfortunately one surprises me a lot less then others
Exactly.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #461 on: May 20, 2015, 01:17:38 PM »
Um because this a serious issue of whether or not to protest public chillul shabbos and he's making a joke out of it. Where do you see room for humor here? Is nothing sacred? This is chilul shabbos here.
Publicly protesting chillul shabbos is a pretty extreme response. At least where I come from.  #LiveAndLetLive
I'm only surprised there haven't been more parodies.
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Offline Sport

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #462 on: May 20, 2015, 01:18:27 PM »
Um because this a serious issue of whether or not to protest public chillul shabbos and he's making a joke out of it. Where do you see room for humor here? Is nothing sacred? This is chilul shabbos here.
Hes not making fun of chillul shabbos, just the way it was dealt with.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #463 on: May 20, 2015, 01:18:39 PM »
Who cares what "a rabbi" texted? Who is this-rav chain kanievsky? AFAIK it's some bird brain who has no more of a say that anyone else does. I can get you "a rabbi" to text you that eating treif is ok.

Apparently he cares because he wouldn't have posted otherwise.
He's trying to show the mentality of the frumsters.
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Offline Aj3042

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #464 on: May 20, 2015, 01:18:51 PM »
Publicly protesting chillul shabbos is a pretty extreme response. At least where I come from.  #LiveAndLetLive
I'm only surprised there haven't been more parodies.
Ok so what? How does that explain where humor fits in? He shouldn't be making a joke about any mitzvah at all. Do you really not understand that? Isn't anything serious?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #465 on: May 20, 2015, 01:19:47 PM »
Didnt say either was unfathomable but unfortunately one surprises me a lot less then others

So you believe what ever is more likely, even there's a decent chance it may not be true?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #466 on: May 20, 2015, 01:21:09 PM »
Ok so what? How does that explain where humor fits in? He shouldn't be making a joke about any mitzvah at all. Do you really not understand that? Isn't anything serious?
Who's making a joke of a mitzvah here??
But thanks for demonstrating the thinking behind the humorless Rabbi who sent that text.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #467 on: May 20, 2015, 01:22:04 PM »
So you believe what ever is more likely, even there's a decent chance it may not be true?
C'mon.
Most people aren't assumed to be liars.
But plenty of people have no humor about the situation and would write something as horrible as that if they were offended.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #468 on: May 20, 2015, 01:23:20 PM »
Publicly protesting chillul shabbos is a pretty extreme response. At least where I come from.  #LiveAndLetLive
I'm only surprised there haven't been more parodies.

You may have your personal  opinion on public protests but would that prompt you to mock the Rabbis and Roshei Yeshiva in your city publicly?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #469 on: May 20, 2015, 01:24:27 PM »
You may have your personal  opinion on public protests but would that prompt you to mock the Rabbis and Roshei Yeshiva in your city publicly?
Would I do it? No.
Do I care if someone else does it? No. 
#LiveAndLetLive
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Offline elit

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #470 on: May 20, 2015, 01:24:33 PM »
So you believe what ever is more likely, even there's a decent chance it may not be true?
I wouldn't bet a dollar on either but my gut tells me that's the likely possibility

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #471 on: May 20, 2015, 01:24:41 PM »
C'mon.
Most people aren't assumed to be liars.
But plenty of people have no humor about the situation and would write something as horrible as that if they were offended.

Most might not be liars. But plenty are.
Most wouldn't write that text. But plenty would.

See what you did there?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #472 on: May 20, 2015, 01:25:52 PM »
Most might not be liars. But plenty are.
Most wouldn't write that text. But plenty would.

See what you did there?
Like I said, call him out on his page if you think he's lying.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #473 on: May 20, 2015, 01:26:45 PM »
Like I said, call him out on his page if you think he's lying.

I don't have Facebook and not starting now either.
Eta: I don't necessarily think he's lying, I just don't know what to believe.
I don't believe accusations just because it has a good chance to be true
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Offline PTU

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #474 on: May 20, 2015, 01:38:03 PM »
The guy lied. No one "Shrieked chabbbess"

Offline elit

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #475 on: May 20, 2015, 01:44:42 PM »
The guy lied. No one "Shrieked chabbbess"
Joke?

Offline PTU

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #476 on: May 20, 2015, 01:51:31 PM »
Joke?
No, this was the part where he was seriously attempting to explain away his pathetic attempt at making a joke out of a very serious and heartbreaking situation.

The serious parts of this guy's career are finished.

Offline elit

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #477 on: May 20, 2015, 01:53:52 PM »
No, this was the part where he was seriously attempting to explain away his pathetic attempt at making a joke out of a very serious and heartbreaking situation.

The serious parts of this guy's career are finished.
Geez. You guys got to lighten up a little he prob was just trying to lighten up av tense atmosphere no-ones saying this isn't a very serious situation but humor helps us survive in a sad and tense world

Offline yitrap

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #478 on: May 20, 2015, 01:55:07 PM »
The guy lied. No one "Shrieked chabbbess"
Oh come on he was making a point!

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Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #479 on: May 20, 2015, 01:55:25 PM »
Geez. You guys got to lighten up a little he prob was just trying to lighten up av tense atmosphere no-ones saying this isn't a very serious situation but humor helps us survive in a sad and tense world
His attempt at explaining his actions by lying are possibly worse than his letzonus.