Topic Wiki

Top rated point of view
I hear both sides. While I am fairly certain that this will ultimately have a negative effect on the kids that were there, I understand that this protest was never intended to be for their benefit but rather to protest against public chilul shabbos. Is that a fair trade-off?

I did speak with a rabbi who I consider to be one of the world's foremost experts on helping OTD kids (and I have personal experience with way too many of them), and he was vehemently against it. He felt that a protest like this will cause significantly more kids to go off, as it now created an us-vs-them mentality that until now only simmered below the surface but is now being forced on them.

12 years ago I was ordered to leave Lakewood because of a (in hindsight) very trivial incident. Do you know what that type of ostracization does to an angry teenager? It makes them angrier and more eager to do the things that caused them to be ostracized in the first place. Some of these kids may have been only testing the waters, hanging out with friends who are much more brazen than them right now. Now they feel like they there's no return. Some of these kids have friends that they will now convince to join them who otherwise were only being mechalel shabbos behind closed doors. There are plenty of kids who are currently in yeshiva and looking the part, but also engaging in all forms of illicit activities including drugs and chilul shabbos. Many of these kids will now feel emboldened to join a "community" of like minded kids. Etc etc etc.

Chop off the limb to save the body, I get that concept even if I don't agree with it. But what about anything connected to that limb? This has consequences reaching far beyond the kids that were physically being mechalel shabbos at the  lake, and I don't think anyone thought about this beyond how it would affect the protesters and the protestees.

My 2 cents.

Lakewood shabbos DO (singing kah echsof in the park, while smoking electric cigarettes using a shabbos switch

Confirmed:
Grodnoking (Need a shabbos switch for my Ecig, who can bring one?)

Probable:

Impossible:
henche


תניא פרק ל"ב

ומ"ש בגמ' שמי שרואה בחבירו שחטא מצוה לשנאותו וגם לומר לרבו שישנאהו. היינו בחבירו בתורה ומצות וכבר קיים בו מצות הוכח תוכיח את עמיתך עם שאתך בתורה ובמצות ואעפ"כ לא שב מחטאו כמ"ש בס' חרדים

 אבל מי שאינו חבירו ואינו מקורב אצלו הנה ע"ז אמר הלל הזקן הוי מתלמידיו של אהרן אוהב שלום וכו' אוהב את הבריות ומקרבן לתורה. לומר שאף הרחוקים מתורת ה' ועבודתו ולכן נקראי' בשם בריות בעלמא צריך למשכן בחבלי עבותו' אהבה וכולי האי ואולי יוכל לקרבן לתורה ועבודת ה' והן לא לא הפסיד שכר מצות אהבת ריעים

וגם המקורבים אליו והוכיחם ולא שבו מעונותיהם שמצוה לשנאותם מצוה לאהבם ג"כ ושתיהן הן אמת שנאה מצד הרע שבהם ואהבה מצד בחי' הטוב הגנוז שבהם שהוא ניצוץ אלקות שבתוכם המחיה נפשם האלקית וגם לעורר רחמים בלבו עליה כי היא בבחי' גלות בתוך הרע מס"א הגובר עליה ברשעי' והרחמנות מבטלת השנאה ומעוררת האהבה כנודע ממ"ש ליעקב אשר פדה את אברהם [ולא אמר דה"עה תכלית שנאה שנאתים וגו' אלא על המינים והאפיקורסים שאין להם חלק באלהי ישראל כדאיתא בגמרא ר"פ ט"ז דשבת]:

« Last edited by yesitsme on May 21, 2015, 12:17:47 PM »

Author Topic: Lakewood Shabbos rally  (Read 150455 times)

Offline grodnoking

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5847
  • Total likes: 767
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #940 on: June 02, 2015, 12:22:07 PM »
It's not exclusively. I also eat cholent.
Pareve cholent I hope.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4399
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #941 on: June 02, 2015, 12:28:35 PM »
Pareve cholent I hope.
No, Pareve cheesecake.

Offline grodnoking

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5847
  • Total likes: 767
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #942 on: June 02, 2015, 12:30:13 PM »
No, Pareve cheesecake.
Ah! But saying that will ruin all future jokes in his name
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #943 on: June 02, 2015, 12:32:22 PM »
What's worse, parve cholent or parve cheesecake?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline efflpetzel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 2835
  • Total likes: 133
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #944 on: June 02, 2015, 12:37:38 PM »

What's worse, parve cholent or parve cheesecake?
parve chulent by far, it has no soul.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #945 on: June 02, 2015, 12:43:04 PM »
Fleishig'e cholent. Milchig'e cheesecake.

I'm Dutch.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #946 on: June 02, 2015, 12:46:30 PM »
Do you wait an hour, or just into the first hour?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #947 on: June 02, 2015, 12:47:53 PM »
Depends on how good the cheesecake is.

Offline yitrap

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Posts: 3288
  • Total likes: 55
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #948 on: June 02, 2015, 02:06:52 PM »
Talk about going OT...

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #949 on: June 02, 2015, 02:11:00 PM »
Talk about going OT...
That was the point. This thread aggravates me.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #950 on: June 02, 2015, 02:15:40 PM »
How so?

Offline yakrot

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1712
  • Total likes: 25
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #951 on: June 02, 2015, 02:23:29 PM »
How so?
Being that you have not read through it you can't possibly know.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #952 on: June 02, 2015, 02:24:07 PM »
That's why I'm asking.

Offline yakrot

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1712
  • Total likes: 25
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #953 on: June 02, 2015, 02:49:12 PM »
That's why I'm asking.
Bc there were at least three strong opinions and multiple ppl aggressively arguing each side.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #954 on: June 02, 2015, 02:51:06 PM »
So, I was asking Dan if he was aggravated by some of the opinions, or by the way they were expressed.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #955 on: June 02, 2015, 02:52:11 PM »
So, I was asking Dan if he was aggravated by some of the opinions, or by the way they were expressed.
Both.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #956 on: June 02, 2015, 02:54:01 PM »
That's probably typical of controversial topics, no?

Offline Freddie

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 3088
  • Total likes: 308
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Pittsburgh
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #957 on: June 02, 2015, 02:55:04 PM »
Both.
Dan, I thought better of you. Don't answer a cheesecake according to his folly, lest you become likened to him.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #958 on: June 02, 2015, 02:56:00 PM »
I'm not sure what I've done to warrant that...

Offline Freddie

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 3088
  • Total likes: 308
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Pittsburgh
Re: Lakewood Shabbos rally
« Reply #959 on: June 02, 2015, 02:57:39 PM »
I'm not sure what I've done to warrant that...
You're a cheesecake.