ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!

[AJK]

Sorry it's you who missed the point. You're again expounding on the technicalities of what was done and it's all irrelevant. Put your calculations of "who's paying who how much for what" aside because that won't get anyone anywhere. Here's what is relevant:
Churning on a large scale is not good for AS (and/or BofA) business.
Period. That's all that matters. You're bad for their bottom line, they're legally allowed to shut you down, so they did just that (by you I mean whoever). Case closed.

So, because they're legally allowed--allegedly--to do something (through ridiculous contracts of adhesion) means that those people who have had miles confiscated should not feel aggrieved that the miles were confiscated, no matter the reason.

Got it.

[Dan]

They feel they can do anything because the supreme court pretty much made them feel that way.

[AJK]

They feel they can do anything because the supreme court pretty much made them feel that way.

Yep. But the point I was making is that it's pretty ballsy to come in here and call everyone who lost miles self-righteous for feeling aggrieved because AS is not our "yeshiva chavrusah."

OP would certainly not cry foul if next time he wore a red shirt, AS closed his account because, well, "Delta has a red logo and we feel you're standing with them in solidarity. Goodbye."

Righto.

[EJB]

Award reimbursement rates are well under 1cpm.

They usually are not based on amount of points required.

[Dan]

I guess the real question is does BOFA do a clawback if the account is closed before x days? Or before the annual fee is paid?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I guess the real question is does BOFA do a clawback if the account is closed before x days? Or before the annual fee is paid?

Would sure like to know this.

[Dan]

They usually are not based on amount of points required.

Of course not, but those amounts are always set to cost the program well under 1cpm.

[EJB]

Of course not, but those amounts are always set to cost the program well under 1cpm.

Overall, because of the ppl that redeem 500k ey points for lhr-auh in f. The cpp from ddf people is likely over 1cpp, and I'd guess around 3 for this flight.

[Dan]

No. They're not going to have an unprofitable redemption level.

Those people are just the gravy.

[EJB]

Of course not, but those amounts are always set to cost the program well under 1cpm.

Some programs are over 1cpm, btw.

[Dan]

Source?

[Chapshnell]

St Regis Florence got paid in the mid $70 range for a $2800 room on C&P. At the DO in Reserve Dan didnt want to believe it but I saw it with my own eyes on their computer

[Dan]

I'm talking about airline programs, not hotel programs which have a 95% clause.

[yuneeq]

I must side with AJ3042.
If AS wasn't losing money from this, they wouldn't be auditing and shutting down accounts left and right. We might not know the exact contract that they have with BofA, but obviously one of them is losing big money from people  churning millions of points. So either BofA or AS is losing money, but we do see AS is the one doing the auditing, so it's likely them losing the money.

If BofA is losing money, they might be forcing AS to audit, close accounts, and clawback miles for them to continue their existing deal.

[etech0]

Would sure like to know this.

You can try posting on FT

[ChaimMoskowitz]

You can try posting on FT

[lunatic]

You can try posting on FT

Maybe he did

[AJK]

If AS wasn't losing money from this, they wouldn't be auditing and shutting down accounts left and right.

So taking money with one hand, and then taking more with the other is not enough incentive for you?

And the issue isn't whether or not AS or BoA is losing money; the issue:

[T]he point I was making is that it's pretty ballsy to come in here and call everyone who lost miles self-righteous for feeling aggrieved because AS is not our "yeshiva chavrusah."

OP would certainly not cry foul if next time he wore a red shirt, AS closed his account because, well, "Delta has a red logo and we feel you're standing with them in solidarity. Goodbye."

[yuneeq]

So taking money with one hand, and then taking more with the other is not enough incentive for you?

And the issue isn't whether or not AS or BoA is losing money; the issue:

Again, you don't know the precise details of the contract and relationship between AS and BofA.

Complaining based on clueless assumptions is nothing more than whining.

[peace123]

Just a small update from an abridged version of a 50 minute phone call i had with an AS supervisor regarding my audit - so you guys can either cry, laugh, shake your head, or whichever you feel is the right reaction!

(For clarity's sake - account had 370k in it from BofA bonuses, 90k was used to book EK F, and 280k taken out during the audit)

AS rep - "Your account was shut down because you canceled the cc's from BofA, and you purchased a flight using the miles. So your account balance is now currently negative 20k, the only way to open your account is by purchasing 20k miles"

Me - "Who exactly audited my account, was is BofA or AS?

AS rep - "It was AS"

Me - "So because i opened and closed cc's from BofA, AS is shutting down my account. That sounds rather strange to me due to the fact i don't recall seeing in any of the T&C's that by closing my credit card i will loose my miles."

AS rep - "It is because you are churning a lot credit cards, and i'm well aware of how that works, as i follow FlyerTalk myself, especially the last 3 weeks when everyone is talking about AS shut downs, and in our point of view - churning credit cards and not paying the annual fees is fraud."

Me - "So if i reopen my BofA cc's and pay the AF's i'll get my 280k miles back?"

AS rep - "No, that will not help"

Me - "but wasn't the reason i was audited because i didn't pay the AF's, so if i pay them now that would solve the issue, no?"

AS rep - "AS MilagePlan is loyalty program, and the way you are treating the program by opening up an AS account just so you can churn BofA credit cards isn't loyal and we have decided to no longer have you as a customer"

Me - "then why do you partner with BofA and allow them to give out millage bonuses if you're just going to shut down the accounts because of it?"

AS rep - ".... you just took the miles and used them to fly on Emirates which costs us $10k-15k a ticket, and that is something we can't handle"

(I almost fainted when he said that, how dumb can a rep be to say something like that straight out?!)

Me - "you mentioned before that churning cc's is fraud, would you mind elaborating a little what exactly is illegal and fraudulent about churning cc's?"

AS rep - "I'm not a lawyer and I can't answer what's legal and what's not, but from a layman's point of view it looks fraudulent and we have the right to close down accounts, and by signing up for cc's and closing them, it's like making a purchase, getting the miles, using them and then refunding the purchases"

Me - "BofA paid AS for the miles, then what exactly is the issue with churning cc's, as far as AS is concerned the miles were paid already?"

AS rep - "well, they weren't paid for because BofA clawed them back"

Me - "Didn't you say that the audit was from AS and NOT BofA, and now you are changing the story"

AS rep - "it doesn't make a difference who the audit is from, the bottom line is that your account is negative 20k and we are not even going to consider reopening your account until you pay us for that balance due"


After i hang up, i received the following email from AS -

Pretty interesting to note that in BofA's T&C's it only says that the companion pass becomes no longer eligible if "If your Account is closed, changed from an Alaska Airlines Visa Signature Account to an account other than a Visa Signature Account or an Account with no annual fee", but it does not mention a word regarding clawing back the 25k miles.

I would have recorded the whole cr*p she said to you! AS got paid for its miles by BOA. It is all full of c**p
don't know whether to believe you or not and also there is nothing in terms that says you have to pay back for miles if you cancel and not paying AF.