Author Topic: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points! (Read 171513 times)

@Yehuda · « **Reply #340 on:** June 26, 2015, 07:39:20 AM »

Quote from: micahfriedland on June 26, 2015, 07:05:00 AM

ohoh. does this not mean that the airlines have full control of their miles? i.e. that selling them would be illegal (and they could win in court)? which would thus make it asur to sell? (i was told, though i don't hold by it, that the current mutar method of selling miles was that the airlines wouldn't win in court; i.e. that they don't have control).

Is it not illegal to sell miles. Not before this case, not after it. The airlines still own your miles, though.

micahfriedland · « **Reply #341 on:** June 26, 2015, 08:16:12 AM »

Quote from: @Yehuda on June 26, 2015, 07:39:20 AM

Is it not illegal to sell miles. Not before this case, not after it. The airlines still own your miles, though.

They wouldn't win in court then?

micahfriedland · « **Reply #342 on:** June 26, 2015, 08:17:40 AM »

Quote from: @Yehuda on June 26, 2015, 07:39:20 AM

Is it not illegal to sell miles. Not before this case, not after it. The airlines still own your miles, though.

any familiarity with:
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2009/11/15/alaska-airlines-wins-lawsuit-against-mileage-broker/
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/02/business/airline-sues-over-sales-of-flier-miles.html

i don't know know the verdict but it seems like they have a tzad. anyone know the maskana?

@Yehuda · « **Reply #343 on:** June 26, 2015, 08:24:40 AM »

Quote from: micahfriedland on June 26, 2015, 08:16:12 AM

They wouldn't win in court then?

I don't know.
You said:
"does this not mean that the airlines have full control of their miles?" The answer is that they always owned the miles.
"i.e. that selling them would be illegal (and they could win in court)?" Selling miles is still not illegal. Your point about court is only relevant because you heard a heter that you can sell miles because the airline wouldn't win in court and don't have control of your miles. But that's based on a false premise - they do have control of THEIR miles. (Get it?)

I don't see what court has to do with it. There are other heterim around for other reasons.
"which would thus make it asur to sell?" If this was going on the 'it's illegal to sell,' then I would imagine it would be hard to find a Rabbi to matir selling if it actually became illegal. If it's going on, 'would the airlines win in court?" then I would say, once again, there are other heterim around. Look and ye shall find.

yuneeq · « **Reply #344 on:** June 26, 2015, 10:09:17 AM »

Quote from: @Yehuda on June 26, 2015, 08:24:40 AM

I don't know.
You said:
"does this not mean that the airlines have full control of their miles?" The answer is that they always owned the miles.
"i.e. that selling them would be illegal (and they could win in court)?" Selling miles is still not illegal. Your point about court is only relevant because you heard a heter that you can sell miles because the airline wouldn't win in court and don't have control of your miles. But that's based on a false premise - they do have control of THEIR miles. (Get it?) I don't see what court has to do with it. There are other heterim around for other reasons.
"which would thus make it asur to sell?" If this was going on the 'it's illegal to sell,' then I would imagine it would be hard to find a Rabbi to matir selling if it actually became illegal. If it's going on, 'would the airlines win in court?" then I would say, once again, there are other heterim around. Look and ye shall find.

TLDR: It's not illegal to sell miles, but the airline can still legally ban you and snatch your miles.

AsherO · « **Reply #345 on:** June 26, 2015, 11:33:56 AM »

Does the concept "illegal" even exist in civil law?

Just because someone sues me in civil court and wins, doesn't mean I did anything illegal...

AJK · « **Reply #346 on:** June 26, 2015, 11:56:26 AM »

Quote from: AsherO on June 26, 2015, 11:33:56 AM

Does the concept "illegal" even exist in civil law?

Just because someone sues me in civil court and wins, doesn't mean I did anything illegal...

It's a good question; and for the most part, most lawyers would not call breach of contract "illegal."

AsherO · « **Reply #347 on:** June 26, 2015, 12:34:47 PM »

Quote from: AJK on June 26, 2015, 11:56:26 AM

It's a good question; and for the most part, most lawyers would not call breach of contract "illegal."

That's a compliment coming from you

I did some googling and it seems you can technically do something civilly illegal, if you actually (directly?) violate a civil statute, though I don't think there are any civil statutes prohibiting the sale of miles (besides for an alleged statute in the state of Utah, which I haven't found yet).

micahfriedland · « **Reply #348 on:** June 28, 2015, 08:31:27 AM »

Quote from: @Yehuda on June 26, 2015, 08:24:40 AM

I don't know.
You said:
"does this not mean that the airlines have full control of their miles?" The answer is that they always owned the miles.
"i.e. that selling them would be illegal (and they could win in court)?" Selling miles is still not illegal. Your point about court is only relevant because you heard a heter that you can sell miles because the airline wouldn't win in court and don't have control of your miles. But that's based on a false premise - they do have control of THEIR miles. (Get it?) I don't see what court has to do with it. There are other heterim around for other reasons.
"which would thus make it asur to sell?" If this was going on the 'it's illegal to sell,' then I would imagine it would be hard to find a Rabbi to matir selling if it actually became illegal. If it's going on, 'would the airlines win in court?" then I would say, once again, there are other heterim around. Look and ye shall find.

Most rebbeim that I've spoken to on the "heter" argument, whether it is because of zuto shel yam (IP) or so forth, base it on the fact that it doesn't violate dina malchusa dina. My question is: does it violate dina malchusa dina (Bc if it did, the rest wouldn't matter so much, would it)?

Thanks to all the responses so far

Hidden · « **Reply #349 on:** June 28, 2015, 08:45:13 AM »

Is applying for 2 cards ok or that is also risky?

EJB · « **Reply #350 on:** June 28, 2015, 10:33:35 AM »

Quote from: Hidden on June 28, 2015, 08:45:13 AM

Is applying for 2 cards ok or that is also risky?

The x applications hasn't been the issue. Canceling has been the issue

Aj3042 · « **Reply #351 on:** June 28, 2015, 12:10:09 PM »

Quote from: EJB on June 28, 2015, 10:33:35 AM

The x applications hasn't been the issue. Canceling has been the issue

Cancellation of how many cards?

EJB · « **Reply #352 on:** June 28, 2015, 12:14:55 PM »

Quote from: Aj3042 on June 28, 2015, 12:10:09 PM

Cancellation of how many cards?

I wouldn't cancel any until a year or you finished using the points IMO. that's their excuse for closing accounts.

Hidden · « **Reply #353 on:** June 28, 2015, 12:25:28 PM »

Quote from: EJB on June 28, 2015, 10:33:35 AM

The x applications hasn't been the issue. Canceling has been the issue

So I can still apply for four cards without any issue?

Hellokitty64 · « **Reply #354 on:** June 28, 2015, 12:29:29 PM »

Quote from: Hidden on June 28, 2015, 12:25:28 PM

So I can still apply for four cards without any issue?

If they'll approve you. I can't get a 4th approved and the first 3 were from a month ago before the real BofA crackdown

EJB · « **Reply #355 on:** June 28, 2015, 12:34:01 PM »

Quote from: Hidden on June 28, 2015, 12:25:28 PM

So I can still apply for four cards without any issue?

If you can get them.

MosheD · « **Reply #356 on:** June 28, 2015, 12:35:10 PM »

Quote from: Hidden on June 28, 2015, 12:25:28 PM

So I can still apply for four cards without any issue?

I plan on trying soon as well. Officially there has been no reports of this being dead, just it is no longer as easy as it once was. Please report back your results.
Also, being that downgrading/cancelling is now an issue, male sure to find the app with $100 sc in order to negate cost of af (you actually end up $20 ahead!).

Aj3042 · « **Reply #357 on:** June 28, 2015, 01:02:50 PM »

Quote from: MosheD on June 28, 2015, 12:35:10 PM

I plan on trying soon as well. Officially there has been no reports of this being dead, just it is no longer as easy as it once was. Please report back your results.
Also, being that downgrading/cancelling is now an issue, male sure to find the app with $100 sc in order to negate cost of af (you actually end up $20 ahead!).

What's that?

D93 · « **Reply #358 on:** June 28, 2015, 01:03:20 PM »

Quote from: Aj3042 on June 28, 2015, 01:02:50 PM

What's that?

$100 statement credit

yitrap · « **Reply #359 on:** June 28, 2015, 01:14:55 PM »

Quote from: MosheD on June 28, 2015, 12:35:10 PM

I plan on trying soon as well. Officially there has been no reports of this being dead, just it is no longer as easy as it once was. Please report back your results.
Also, being that downgrading/cancelling is now an issue, male sure to find the app with $100 sc in order to negate cost of af (you actually end up $20 ahead!).

Don't you end up with $25 ahead?