Author Topic: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!  (Read 110872 times)

Offline sky121

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #240 on: June 23, 2015, 11:15:06 AM »
Are these accounts that have recently churned? Any older churned accounts?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline D93

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #241 on: June 23, 2015, 01:03:16 PM »
He actually received a phone call about a booked trip under someone else's name, so don't add him to the mile churning clawback list.

Churning isn't the only audit trigger, they'll be more than happy to audit you for selling as well

Offline Aj3042

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #242 on: June 23, 2015, 01:06:03 PM »
Churning isn't the only audit trigger, they'll be more than happy to audit you for selling as well
Were your miles also reinstated?

Offline D93

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #243 on: June 23, 2015, 06:16:18 PM »
Just a small update from an abridged version of a 50 minute phone call i had with an AS supervisor regarding my audit - so you guys can either cry, laugh, shake your head, or whichever you feel is the right reaction!

(For clarity's sake - account had 370k in it from BofA bonuses, 90k was used to book EK F, and 280k taken out during the audit)

AS rep - "Your account was shut down because you canceled the cc's from BofA, and you purchased a flight using the miles. So your account balance is now currently negative 20k, the only way to open your account is by purchasing 20k miles"

Me - "Who exactly audited my account, was is BofA or AS?

AS rep - "It was AS"

Me - "So because i opened and closed cc's from BofA, AS is shutting down my account. That sounds rather strange to me due to the fact i don't recall seeing in any of the T&C's that by closing my credit card i will loose my miles."

AS rep - "It is because you are churning a lot credit cards, and i'm well aware of how that works, as i follow FlyerTalk myself, especially the last 3 weeks when everyone is talking about AS shut downs, and in our point of view - churning credit cards and not paying the annual fees is fraud."

Me - "So if i reopen my BofA cc's and pay the AF's i'll get my 280k miles back?"

AS rep - "No, that will not help"

Me - "but wasn't the reason i was audited because i didn't pay the AF's, so if i pay them now that would solve the issue, no?"

AS rep - "AS MilagePlan is loyalty program, and the way you are treating the program by opening up an AS account just so you can churn BofA credit cards isn't loyal and we have decided to no longer have you as a customer"

Me - "then why do you partner with BofA and allow them to give out millage bonuses if you're just going to shut down the accounts because of it?"

AS rep - ".... you just took the miles and used them to fly on Emirates which costs us $10k-15k a ticket, and that is something we can't handle"

(I almost fainted when he said that, how dumb can a rep be to say something like that straight out?!)

Me - "you mentioned before that churning cc's is fraud, would you mind elaborating a little what exactly is illegal and fraudulent about churning cc's?"

AS rep - "I'm not a lawyer and I can't answer what's legal and what's not, but from a layman's point of view it looks fraudulent and we have the right to close down accounts, and by signing up for cc's and closing them, it's like making a purchase, getting the miles, using them and then refunding the purchases"

Me - "BofA paid AS for the miles, then what exactly is the issue with churning cc's, as far as AS is concerned the miles were paid already?"

AS rep - "well, they weren't paid for because BofA clawed them back"

Me - "Didn't you say that the audit was from AS and NOT BofA, and now you are changing the story"

AS rep - "it doesn't make a difference who the audit is from, the bottom line is that your account is negative 20k and we are not even going to consider reopening your account until you pay us for that balance due"


After i hang up, i received the following email from AS -

Quote
Dear D93,
Thank you for contacting Alaska Airlines. As you were advised today on the
phone, you owe Alaska Airlines $591.40 for the 20,000 miles that were used.
This is for the ticket XXX XXXXXXXXXX in the name of D93.

Below is the information on the credit card application that you agreed to when
applying for the credit card.
Visa Signature® accounts will receive an annual round-trip coach Companion Fare
on Alaska Airlines from $121 (USD) ($99 base fare plus taxes and fees, from $22
depending on your Alaska Airlines flight itinerary) when traveling with another
passenger on a paid published coach airfare on the same itinerary, booked at
the same time. Companion fare certificate code will be credited to your Alaska
Airlines Mileage PlanTM account approximately 2-3 weeks after approval. The
Companion Fare e-certificate is issued to the primary cardholder's Mileage Plan
account upon approval of a new account and on each anniversary thereafter. The
Companion Fare must be redeemed within 12 months of the date of issue. Once
ticketed, travel may be completed after the expiration date of the Companion
Fare. The expiration date cannot be extended and, once your Companion Fare has
expired, it cannot be exchanged. If your Account is closed, changed from an
Alaska Airlines Visa Signature Account to an account other than a Visa
Signature Account or an Account with no annual fee, you are no longer eligible
to receive this benefit. Mileage cannot be used as a form of payment, however
mileage credit accrual is allowed for both travelers. Travelers are responsible
for all applicable checked baggage fees. The Companion Fare is not valid with
award travel, and cannot be combined with other discounts. Applicable taxes and
fees are subject to change.
Benefits of the card:
25,000 bonus miles
Companion Certificate

Below are the Terms & Conditions that you agreed to when joining the Mileage
Plan

Alaska Airlines reserves the right to audit Mileage Plan accounts at any time
and without notice to the member to ensure compliance with these Mileage Plan
Conditions of Membership and applicable conditions of carriage and/or tariffs.
In the event that an audit reveals discrepancies or violations, the processing
of Mileage Plan awards, mileage accrual or redemption of accrued mileage may be
suspended until the discrepancies or violations are resolved to Alaska
Airlines' satisfaction. Alaska Airlines reserves the right to terminate the
membership and/or suspend access to the mileage balance of any member at any
time for any reason it deems appropriate.
Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan Miles, award tickets, upgrade certificates, and
companion certificates may not be sold, purchased or bartered except as
permitted on Points.com. Travel agents, travel arrangers and unauthorized
brokers are not permitted to issue Mileage Plan tickets or to process or
facilitate any other Mileage Plan transactions (including Mileage Plan account
creation, account inquiries, and mileage or award ticket transfers) on behalf
of others. If Alaska Airlines becomes aware that a member or a third party has
misrepresented his/her identity in order to perform a Mileage Plan transaction,
Alaska Airlines may, in its sole discretion, void the transaction. Miles or
award tickets issued, transferred or obtained in violation of these Conditions
of Membership are voidable, in Alaska Airlines’ sole discretion. The member
and/or the traveler shall be liable for the full, unrestricted value of awards
issued as a result of improper or fraudulent transfers or otherwise in
violation of these Conditions of Membership. Alaska Airlines shall not be
responsible for any inconvenience, damage or loss incurred by the member or the
traveler if travel is interrupted or an award ticket is invalidated due to
violation of these Conditions of Membership. Alaska Airlines reserves the right
to deactivate the Mileage Plan account and/or remove the Miles from the account
of any member who violates these terms until liability is fulfilled, and all
other rights under applicable law to enforce these Conditions of Membership.
Sincerely,
Yvette
Alaska Airlines
Customer Care
Fraud Specialist

Pretty interesting to note that in BofA's T&C's it only says that the companion pass becomes no longer eligible if "If your Account is closed, changed from an Alaska Airlines Visa Signature Account to an account other than a Visa Signature Account or an Account with no annual fee", but it does not mention a word regarding clawing back the 25k miles.

Offline rileywiles23

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ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #244 on: June 23, 2015, 06:20:36 PM »
WOW !!!! Did you record the whole conversation ? This is one for the ages.
Life is as good as you make it...

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #245 on: June 23, 2015, 06:22:42 PM »
What the hell does that email say, anyway?! Looks like Yvette took a dump on her keyboard, and then hit "send".

Offline JoeCha

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #246 on: June 23, 2015, 06:23:18 PM »
Just a small update from an abridged version of a 50 minute phone call i had with an AS supervisor regarding my audit - so you guys can either cry, laugh, shake your head, or whichever you feel is the right reaction!

(For clarity's sake - account had 370k in it from BofA bonuses, 90k was used to book EK F, and 280k taken out during the audit)

AS rep - "Your account was shut down because you canceled the cc's from BofA, and you purchased a flight using the miles. So your account balance is now currently negative 20k, the only way to open your account is by purchasing 20k miles"

Me - "Who exactly audited my account, was is BofA or AS?

AS rep - "It was AS"

Me - "So because i opened and closed cc's from BofA, AS is shutting down my account. That sounds rather strange to me due to the fact i don't recall seeing in any of the T&C's that by closing my credit card i will loose my miles."

AS rep - "It is because you are churning a lot credit cards, and i'm well aware of how that works, as i follow FlyerTalk myself, especially the last 3 weeks when everyone is talking about AS shut downs, and in our point of view - churning credit cards and not paying the annual fees is fraud."

Me - "So if i reopen my BofA cc's and pay the AF's i'll get my 280k miles back?"

AS rep - "No, that will not help"

Me - "but wasn't the reason i was audited because i didn't pay the AF's, so if i pay them now that would solve the issue, no?"

AS rep - "AS MilagePlan is loyalty program, and the way you are treating the program by opening up an AS account just so you can churn BofA credit cards isn't loyal and we have decided to no longer have you as a customer"

Me - "then why do you partner with BofA and allow them to give out millage bonuses if you're just going to shut down the accounts because of it?"

AS rep - ".... you just took the miles and used them to fly on Emirates which costs us $10k-15k a ticket, and that is something we can't handle"

(I almost fainted when he said that, how dumb can a rep be to say something like that straight out?!)

Me - "you mentioned before that churning cc's is fraud, would you mind elaborating a little what exactly is illegal and fraudulent about churning cc's?"

AS rep - "I'm not a lawyer and I can't answer what's legal and what's not, but from a layman's point of view it looks fraudulent and we have the right to close down accounts, and by signing up for cc's and closing them, it's like making a purchase, getting the miles, using them and then refunding the purchases"

Me - "BofA paid AS for the miles, then what exactly is the issue with churning cc's, as far as AS is concerned the miles were paid already?"

AS rep - "well, they weren't paid for because BofA clawed them back"

Me - "Didn't you say that the audit was from AS and NOT BofA, and now you are changing the story"

AS rep - "it doesn't make a difference who the audit is from, the bottom line is that your account is negative 20k and we are not even going to consider reopening your account until you pay us for that balance due"


After i hang up, i received the following email from AS -

Pretty interesting to note that in BofA's T&C's it only says that the companion pass becomes no longer eligible if "If your Account is closed, changed from an Alaska Airlines Visa Signature Account to an account other than a Visa Signature Account or an Account with no annual fee", but it does not mention a word regarding clawing back the 25k miles.
This looks bad.

Since the T& C doesn't mention anything about the miles, I'd try SCC.
"There is no such thing as bad whiskey. Some whiskeys just happen to be better than others" ― William Faulkner

Offline Yehoshua

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #247 on: June 23, 2015, 06:23:52 PM »
Wow! That's interesting. I learned long ago not to trust B of A. They shut down my checking account for withdrawing money after depositing it a couple of days prior siting the same "we don't want you as a customer and don't have to tell you why we're terminating you" business. I don't know if it's B of A or ASS that's being weird here, but I don't trust either of them.

Offline JoeCha

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #248 on: June 23, 2015, 06:24:02 PM »
What the hell does that email say, anyway?! Looks like Yvette took a dump on her keyboard, and then hit "send".
It says hell.

Just read it.
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Offline Buruch

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #249 on: June 23, 2015, 06:24:12 PM »
There's no way they pay 10-15k for an ek ticket.

Offline JoeCha

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #250 on: June 23, 2015, 06:27:19 PM »
There's no way they pay 10-15k for an ek ticket.
They didn't say they pay that.
The rep just mentioned that this is the retail price.
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Offline Buruch

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #251 on: June 23, 2015, 06:29:19 PM »
They didn't say they pay that.
The rep just mentioned that this is the retail price.

Read again.

Offline cozmohoot

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #252 on: June 23, 2015, 06:29:37 PM »
What the hell does that email say, anyway?! Looks like Yvette took a dump on her keyboard, and then hit "send".
Alol!

Offline DMYD

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #253 on: June 23, 2015, 06:32:52 PM »
Sad and funny at the same time, clearly the rep is a Nood on FT.

Offline AJK

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Re: ALASKA is shutting down your accounts and taking away points!
« Reply #254 on: June 23, 2015, 06:33:05 PM »
There's no way they pay 10-15k for an ek ticket.

+1, that's utter nonsense.

They didn't say they pay that.
The rep just mentioned that this is the retail price.

Wrong.

AS rep - ".... you just took the miles and used them to fly on Emirates which costs us $10k-15k a ticket, and that is something we can't handle"

2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper