Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings

[aygart]

Hate the sin, not the sinner

why are you quoting Christian gospel to convince someone about Judaism?

[Freddie]

why are you quoting Christian gospel to convince someone about Judaism?

You're choshed he was paraphrasing New Testament when you can just assume he was referring -- lehavdil -- to Tehilim?

יתמו חטאים מן הארץ ורשעים עוד אינם

[aygart]

And where does Torah say that a Mumar Lete'avon is to be hated?

Hate if a strong Psak. A very strong  Makor is needed...

the example used in Psachim of someone you have a mitzvah to hate is znus. That is the sonaacha of prika uteina.

[aygart]

You're choshed he was paraphrasing New Testament when you can just assume he was referring -- lehavdil -- to Tehilim?

יתמו חטאים מן הארץ ורשעים עוד אינם

that is referring to wishing them harm and not to hating them. There is no mention of hate only their disappearance.

[wayfe]

You're choshed he was paraphrasing New Testament when you can just assume he was referring -- lehavdil -- to Tehilim?

יתמו חטאים מן הארץ ורשעים עוד אינם

You're right I was referring to that, was just doing a quick Google search to find the exact words and source.

But I did actually have some niggling doubt as to the origins of that catchy phrase "sin not the sinner"....

[Freddie]

that is referring to wishing them harm and not to hating them. There is no mention of hate only their disappearance.

If you hate them, why pray for them to no longer be sinners?

[jj1000]

I'm starting to get it, we have to hate sinners (Because some poskim say you are allowed to hate a sinner), we know we sin, we hate ourselves, and the rest is history.

[aygart]

If you hate them, why pray for them to no longer be sinners?

then I will no longer need to hate them. See MGA 156:2 and numerous places in sefer Chofetz Chaim as well as Psachim 113 and the rishonim there.

[Aj3042]

I'm starting to get it, we have to hate sinners (Because some poskim say you are allowed to hate a sinner), we know we sin, we hate ourselves, and the rest is history.

You obviously do't get it. There's a mitzvah to hate those who publicly flaunt their aveiros. Please learn the inyanim first then talk. Now we're discussing halacha not your opinions so please educate yourself before taking part (this includes gemara and poskim not just chabad torah's)

[Freddie]

I'm starting to get it, we have to hate sinners (Because some poskim say you are allowed to hate a sinner), we know we sin, we hate ourselves, and the rest is history.

Look, JJ. You have your hidurim, other people have their hidurim. What do you want from them? BeMai Havei Zahir Tefei? B'Sina!

[aygart]

I'm starting to get it, we have to hate sinners (Because some poskim say you are allowed to hate a sinner), we know we sin, we hate ourselves, and the rest is history.

the MGA says it is someone who does not accept tochacha. What you wrote about them saying that one is allowed to hate them is simply ignorance. That is not what"mitzvah lisnoso"means

[aygart]

You obviously do't get it. There's a mitzvah to hate those who publicly flaunt their aveiros. Please learn the inyanim first then talk. Now we're discussing halacha not your opinions so please educate yourself before taking part (this includes gemara and poskim not just chabad torah's)

why do all roads by you lead to chabad?

[Yehuda57]

Look, JJ. You have your hidurim, other people have their hidurim. What do you want from them? BeMai Havei Zahir Tefei? B'Sina!

As שניידער גיך says, "haters gonna hate."

[wayfe]

Never mind hating the sinners- do you hate the sin enough for this court ruling to anger you?

And for all the chabad guys- from what I learned of the Tanya, isn't one of the first ideas that the difference between a tzaddik gamur and tzaddik lo gamur (is that the term) is the degree of hating evil?

[Achas Veachas]

You obviously do't get it. There's a mitzvah to hate those who publicly flaunt their aveiros. Please learn the inyanim first then talk. Now we're discussing halacha not your opinions so please educate yourself before taking part (this includes gemara and poskim not just chabad torah's)

I'm sorry, Halachah for me is Shu"A, not Gemarah and not Rambam (unless your from Teiman) bring the Shu"a and we'll see if it applies to this case.

[Achas Veachas]

Never mind hating the sinners- do you hate the sin enough for this court ruling to anger you?

And for all the chabad guys- from what I learned of the Tanya, isn't one of the first ideas that the difference between a tzaddik gamur and tzaddik lo gamur (is that the term) is the degree of feeling disgusted by evil?

FTFY.

And unless you are equally disgusted by Chillul Shabbos, non-kosher food, Bittul Torah etc. etc. etc. Please don't call yourself a Tzaddik in this context. For the rest of us, see perek 32 in Tanya regarding the attitude to sinners.

[wayfe]

As שניידער גיך says, "haters gonna hate."

I think that's one of the biggest issues with people today. Everybody is so afraid of being called a racist or a hater or a bigot or close-minded or intolerant that we all just parrot the popular catchphrases and bend over backwards trying to incorporate secular ideas into our belief system.

[TimT]

As שניידער גיך says

lol. Took me a minute

[Freddie]

I hate when Jewish men shave.

[Aj3042]

I'm sorry, Halachah for me is Shu"A, not Gemarah and not Rambam (unless your from Teiman) bring the Shu"a and we'll see if it applies to this case.

Actually many poskim say it is assur to rule from shulchan aruch without knowing what leads to it. This includes kadmonim like the maharsha, maharshal, and those who followed. Saying that halacha starts and ends with shulchan aruch is ignorance. it starts with shas and goes to poskim. But again, another discussion.