Author Topic: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings  (Read 74037 times)

Offline PTU

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 289
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #280 on: June 27, 2015, 11:55:51 PM »
So the further away the country and laws go from Judaism the better because it is so clear one is water and one is oil. If the laws of the country are the same as the torah it could be very confusing...

This law was a welcome one I guess.

(As aside note someone pointed out that married couples have less relation than single people so this is also a good law because there will be less total immoral acts happening in the country.)
Where did I imply better? It's terrible.

But our only hope in this situation is to stay far away from indoctrinating liberal college campuses. And to try to instil pride in our heritage and Torah.
Not to apologize and corrupt Torah hashkafa to fit in with the corrupt perverts. Oil and water indeed.

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1396
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #281 on: June 27, 2015, 11:57:06 PM »
Not sure what you mean exactly, but if you're reffering to the likes of Bloombergs war on Mitzizah b'peh, I hear your point. So I guess either extreme is not ideal. How about live and let live?

Now there's some irony for you.

Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #282 on: June 27, 2015, 11:57:22 PM »
So the further away the country and laws go from Judaism the better because it is so clear one is water and one is oil. If the laws of the country are the same as the torah it could be very confusing...

This law was a welcome one I guess.

(As aside note someone pointed out that married couples have less relations than single people so this is also a good law because there will be less total immoral acts happening in the country.)
Given that Hashem called this act "an abomination" and it is forbidden on pain of death for non Jews as well a frum Jew can't possibly look at this as a "welcome" development.
We (at least the frum, normal ones) were arguing the issue in terms of the Constitution, not in terms of whether it is actually good, which it definitely is not.

Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #283 on: June 28, 2015, 12:01:56 AM »
Now there's some irony for you.
Aren't you the one who revealed himself to not believe in the concept of "free will"? Here's another "primitive" Torah hashkafa for you-arvus and tochacha. Also one of the real basics-see for example the story of Achan in sefer Yehoshua when the act of one brought tragedy to all.
Please look it up and let us know if this idea fits with the modern enlightened worldview or if it is as archaic and useless as the idea of free will.

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2365
  • Total likes: 103
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #284 on: June 28, 2015, 12:08:16 AM »
Now there's some irony for you.
Please elaborate..

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1396
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #285 on: June 28, 2015, 12:08:32 AM »
Aren't you the one who revealed himself to not believe in the concept of "free will"? Here's another "primitive" Torah hashkafa for you-arvus and tochacha. Also one of the real basics-see for example the story of Achan in sefer Yehoshua when the act of one brought tragedy to all.
Please look it up and let us know if this idea fits with the modern enlightened worldview or if it is as archaic and useless as the idea of free will.

Learn to comprehend.  Where did I say - or even imply - that I don't believe in free will?

Second, this ruling has zero affect on your life.  Zero, nada, nill.  There's not going to be more gay people now, and there isn't going to be more homosexual relations just because they can get married, so your point is completely moot.

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1450
  • Total likes: 375
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #286 on: June 28, 2015, 12:10:10 AM »
So the further away the country and laws go from Judaism the better because it is so clear one is water and one is oil. If the laws of the country are the same as the torah it could be very confusing...

This law was a welcome one I guess.

(As aside note someone pointed out that married couples have less relations than single people so this is also a good law because there will be less total immoral acts happening in the country.)
Theoretically you would be correct, but in actuality that is just not the case for two reasons:

1. While Jews don't need the government to make civil law match that of the Torah's, the Torah does dictate that there are certain laws that are universal and critical to make society sustainable. Sexual immorality, which includes homosexuality, is included among these. (Of the seven universal laws, not all are of immediate destruction to society. Sexual immorality, as brought down in several places, IS among those critical to society.)

(A brief quote from congress: "Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws")

2. Outside influence DOES have an affect on the Jewish people. There is a reason the Alter Rebbe (Ba'al Hatanya) sided with the Czar. While Jews have absolutely no control over how gentiles behave, the more immorality that exists, the more it creeps in. When the government declares immorality the law of the land, it creeps in ever more so.

Offline PTU

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 289
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #287 on: June 28, 2015, 12:11:50 AM »




Because you've been inculcated that it's vile.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.  But know, if you were born in isolation - more likely than not - you wouldn't have the same reaction.



If anyone has been inculcated it is you!

BTW since when did you guys find an evolutionary excuse for homosexuality?

Or is it just just a "beautiful expression" ... (of corrupted animalistic lust)


Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #288 on: June 28, 2015, 12:13:07 AM »
Learn to comprehend.  Where did I say - or even imply - that I don't believe in free will?

Second, this ruling has zero affect on your life.  Zero, nada, nill.  There's not going to be more gay people now, and there isn't going to be more homosexual relations just because they can get married, so your point is completely moot.
First of all, don't tell me your retracting already. In response to "But in short we all can desire things that we shouldn't. What about blood lust, or anger or any negative disposition?", you said
Wait, so you're one of those people that think being gay is a choice?  Like choosing to steal or kill?


Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #289 on: June 28, 2015, 12:15:28 AM »
Learn to comprehend.  Where did I say - or even imply - that I don't believe in free will?

Second, this ruling has zero affect on your life.  Zero, nada, nill.  There's not going to be more gay people now, and there isn't going to be more homosexual relations just because they can get married, so your point is completely moot.
First off, when society descends into this kind of stuff it impacts everyone.
Secondly, please don't tell me your so naive to believe it has no practical implications. First, it's this. Next, it'll be discriminatory for a Rabbi not to officiate and a Jewish hall not to rent. I sincerely hope you can see a little bit more into the future than just one day at a time.

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1450
  • Total likes: 375
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #290 on: June 28, 2015, 12:15:33 AM »


If anyone has been inculcated it is you!

BTW since when did you guys find an evolutionary excuse for homosexuality?

Or is it just just a "beautiful expression" ... (of corrupted animalistic lust)

PTU, don't waste your time. I did not bother responding to Aaron after he made this statement. If Aaron thinks that a man sleeping with another man is only disgusting because we have been "inculcated" to believe that, then there is nothing more to say.

Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #291 on: June 28, 2015, 12:18:22 AM »
PTU, don't waste your time. I did not bother responding to Aaron after he made this statement. If Aaron thinks that a man sleeping with another man is only disgusting because we have been "inculcated" to believe that, then there is nothing more to say.
100%. He may be the nicest guy in the world but he clearly isn't a God fearing religious Jew on the inside if that's what he thinks (not that he claims to be). As I said in regards to CM there's no use in arguing this point with someone who doesn't share our values. He clearly can't appreciate anything we say from a Torah perspective.

Offline username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4643
  • Total likes: 613
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #292 on: June 28, 2015, 12:19:14 AM »
   
First off, when society descends into this kind of stuff it impacts everyone.
Secondly, please don't tell me your so naive to believe it has no practical implications. First, it's this. Next, it'll be discriminatory for a Rabbi not to officiate and a Jewish hall not to rent. I sincerely hope you can see a little bit more into the future than just one day at a time.
Every textbook that has an example of a married couple ( from math to grammar) will / may have to give EQUAL timing to toava couples. (Im not a legal expert but thats one thing that worries me)
^^^

Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #293 on: June 28, 2015, 12:20:41 AM »
Every textbook that has an example of a married couple ( from math to grammar) will / may have to give EQUAL timing to toava couples. (Im not a legal expert but thats one thing that worries me)
Yep that's just one example which demonstrates the notion that when society turns so badly it effects EVERYONE in numerous ways.

Offline dovy2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 2389
  • Total likes: 303
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
    • View Profile
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #294 on: June 28, 2015, 12:21:42 AM »
Someone know about the gemara in chulin about the three zechusim goyim have, one being in banning kesuvas mishkav zochor?
Update:

במסכת חולין. בגמרא נאמר:" עולא אמר אלו [28]שלשים מצות שקבלו עליהם בני נח ואין מקיימין אלא שלשה. אחת שאין כותבין כתובה לזכרים ואחת שאין שוקלין בשר המת במקולין ואחת שמכבדין את התורה"[מסכת חולין צב.-צב:]

רש"י שם מסביר:"שאין כותבין כתובה לזכרים. דאע"פ שחשודין למשכב זכור ומייחדין להם זכר לתשמישן אין נוהגין קלות ראש במצוה זו כל כך שיכתבו להם כתובה":

« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 12:27:47 AM by dovy2 »

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18454
  • Total likes: 14631
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #295 on: June 28, 2015, 12:33:28 AM »
I'll read that later.  But, why isn't every atheist a thief, murderer and rapist?  Because there can be an innate sense of right and wrong based on the other factor I mentioned.  The main difference between religious morals and secular morals is that secular morals are solely based on things that harm others.  Religious morals are more encompassing.
read The Sea Wolf by Jack London and explain to me why Wolf Larsen is wrong without religion.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #296 on: June 28, 2015, 12:34:31 AM »
Someone know about the gemara in chulin about the three zechusim goyim have, one being in banning kesuvas mishkav zochor?
Update:

במסכת חולין. בגמרא נאמר:" עולא אמר אלו [28]שלשים מצות שקבלו עליהם בני נח ואין מקיימין אלא שלשה. אחת שאין כותבין כתובה לזכרים ואחת שאין שוקלין בשר המת במקולין ואחת שמכבדין את התורה"[מסכת חולין צב.-צב:]

רש"י שם מסביר:"שאין כותבין כתובה לזכרים. דאע"פ שחשודין למשכב זכור ומייחדין להם זכר לתשמישן אין נוהגין קלות ראש במצוה זו כל כך שיכתבו להם כתובה":
Interesting really speaks exactly what we're saying about making it official. Thanks! Which daf is this?

Offline username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4643
  • Total likes: 613
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #297 on: June 28, 2015, 12:35:12 AM »
92
a&b
^^^

Offline Aj3042

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: The Oval Office
  • Programs: Presidential Limo Gold, Secret Service Detail Platinum, Air Force One Diamond, White House Free Days, Red Telephone Priority Service.
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #298 on: June 28, 2015, 12:37:55 AM »
92
a&b
Thanks. Anybody on the other side want to speak up? Here we have an open Gemara saying this about what non Jews do in their societies.

Offline sam i am

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 722
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #299 on: June 28, 2015, 12:38:00 AM »
Judges are chosen based on the way we think they will vote. When they don't I look at it as the system is working the way it should. Do you really want a stacked supreme court?
Well one side of the court does always vote the way those that chose them thought they would. It is a couple of judges on the conservative side that vote differently. In Roberts' case in particular, it is hard to grasp why he does so. iAs I mentioned yesterday, his opinions usually contain plain straightforward logic. His ACA rulings do not. When nominated to be Chief Justice he said his role would be to "call balls and strikes." He doesn't seem to be observing that declaration.