Author Topic: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings  (Read 73981 times)

Offline wayfe

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #300 on: June 28, 2015, 12:43:53 AM »
Every textbook that has an example of a married couple ( from math to grammar) will / may have to give EQUAL timing to toava couples. (Im not a legal expert but thats one thing that worries me)

It's already that way in every TV show. Which makes it seem like approximately 1 out of every 4 people are gay.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline sam i am

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #301 on: June 28, 2015, 12:49:54 AM »
Interesting really speaks exactly what we're saying about making it official. Thanks! Which daf is this?
I mentioned this yesterday

The Torah doesn't talk about it but the Gemara does. It was the writing of marriage contracts for SS couples that sealed the fate of Noah's generation.

 but I think I gave the wrong source. It is Midrash Tanchuma, Parshas Bereishis:
מדרש תנחומא (בובר) פרשת בראשית
אמר ר' הונא בשם ר' אידי לא נתחתם גזר דינם של דור המבול עד שכתבו קמיסמסין (פי' כתובות) לזכר ולבהמה

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #302 on: June 28, 2015, 12:50:05 AM »
@Dan-this Gemara just quoted above is what we would call "proof". It is clear that "legalizing" and making official toeivah is a negative thing and one of which chazal looked at as bad (even worse than the actual act!!!).. So this is the kind of thing which if you showed against an opinion of mine I would have to back down from my opinion (unless I could show you your understanding isn't correct etc.). Of course, now your in that position.
(Insert deafening silence here).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 12:54:37 AM by Aj3042 »

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #303 on: June 28, 2015, 12:52:01 AM »
@Dan-this Gemara just quoted above is what we would call "proof". It is clear that "legalizing" and making official toeivah is a negative thing and one of which chazal looked at as bad (even worse than the actual act!!!).. So this is the kind of thing which if you showed against an opinion of mine I would have to back down from my opinion (unless I could show you your understanding isn't correct etc.). Of course, now your in that position.
(Insert deafening silence here).
grow up
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #304 on: June 28, 2015, 12:52:35 AM »
I mentioned this yesterday

 but I think I gave the wrong source. It is Midrash Tanchuma, Parshas Bereishis:
מדרש תנחומא (בובר) פרשת בראשית
אמר ר' הונא בשם ר' אידי לא נתחתם גזר דינם של דור המבול עד שכתבו קמיסמסין (פי' כתובות) לזכר ולבהמה
Oh didn't notice. Great sources guys!
I think we've settled this. Gemara, Medrash, Wayfe, sam i am, myself, and a few others on one side.
SCOTUS, Aaaron, Dan, Achas and others on the other.
No need to specify which is the winning side.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #305 on: June 28, 2015, 12:52:57 AM »
@Dan-this Gemara just quoted above is what we would call "proof". It is clear that "legalizing" and making official toeivah is a negative thing and one of which chazal looked at as bad (even worse than the actual act!!!).. So this is the kind of thing which if you showed against an opinion of mine I would have to back down from my opinion (unless I could show you your understanding isn't correct etc.). Of course, now your in that position.
(Insert deafening silence here).
[




]
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #306 on: June 28, 2015, 12:53:05 AM »
grow up
Huh? What exactly didn't you like about what I said?

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #307 on: June 28, 2015, 01:06:31 AM »
I'm happy to see that some brought the sources from chazal. Case closed.

And yes, there is nothing we can do about it. We can only pray.

Offline Dan

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #308 on: June 28, 2015, 01:23:01 AM »
Oh didn't notice. Great sources guys!
I think we've settled this. Gemara, Medrash, Wayfe, sam i am, myself, and a few others on one side.
SCOTUS, Aaaron, Dan, Achas and others on the other.
No need to specify which is the winning side.
Are you kidding me?
I never once stated my opinion on this topic.
Final warning, don't you dare put words in my mouth for a 3rd time.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #309 on: June 28, 2015, 01:26:34 AM »
Are you kidding me?
I never once stated my opinion on this topic.
Final warning, don't you dare put words in my mouth for a 3rd time.
Well from your words and tone you sure weren't agreeing with me. So the logical conclusion I came to is that you were disagreeing with me. Were you or were you not agreeing with me?

Does anybody from the the other side want to come out and admit they were wrong now that we've uncovered two open maamrei chazal?
Take it for whatever you want.  I've backed down when I realize I'm wrong, it's a trait that normal humans have. At least once in a while.
@Dan now that certainly isn't putting words in your mouth.

Offline Dan

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #310 on: June 28, 2015, 01:29:37 AM »
No, all I said was to others that there's no point in arguing with you.

You have proven to be king at straw man arguments and ASSuming to know what others believe. And I'm beyond tired of it.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #311 on: June 28, 2015, 01:33:08 AM »
No, all I said was to others that there's no point in arguing with you.

You have proven to be king at straw man arguments and ASSuming to know what others believe. And I'm beyond tired of it.
Well thanks for the public service announcement.

Label it all you want-straw man etc. etc.-but I have clearly just won the argument. So I think the word you're looking for is "(king of) winning arguments".

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #312 on: June 28, 2015, 03:23:47 AM »
100%. He may be the nicest guy in the world but he clearly isn't a God fearing religious Jew on the inside if that's what he thinks (not that he claims to be). As I said in regards to CM there's no use in arguing this point with someone who doesn't share our values. He clearly can't appreciate anything we say from a Torah perspective.
Those that profess to be holier than thou are the ones you need to look out for.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #313 on: June 28, 2015, 06:25:43 AM »
Those that profess to be holier than thou are the ones you need to look out for.
Sounds ominous. Where's you get this great wisdom from? Confucius?

Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #314 on: June 28, 2015, 08:34:41 AM »
Just read the last ten pages and hopefully when most of you come back the hatred will not return.
Was wishful thinking.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #315 on: June 28, 2015, 08:44:21 AM »
Oh didn't notice. Great sources guys!
I think we've settled this. Gemara, Medrash, Wayfe, sam i am, myself, and a few others on one side.
SCOTUS, Aaaron, Dan, Achas and others on the other.
No need to specify which is the winning side.
No one was saying this is a positive development. What we were saying is that a. The SC ruling is nothing new, it's a symptom of society as a whole and they had no other way to rule and b. This isn't something worthy of us getting riled up over.

Also:
grow up

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #316 on: June 28, 2015, 09:14:54 AM »
Sounds ominous. Where's you get this great wisdom from? Confucius?
Us common folk are not capable of great wisdom but we do have common sense. We might even read things like The Age of Reason by one of our founding fathers.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #317 on: June 28, 2015, 09:16:56 AM »
Was wishful thinking.
We can always hope.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline clear thinker

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #318 on: June 28, 2015, 10:20:25 AM »
they had no other way to rule and b. This isn't something worthy of us getting riled up over.

Wrong on both counts.
Even if your right that it's accepted in society (I think it's only accepted in pop culture & in the lib media and so on, they just make it sound as if this is popular belief though it isn't; it's just loud mouth left as always!)
It still doesn't make it right for the SC just because "society".
And b. His point a whole time is that it is something worthy of us......
Given the Torah look on thus and what רש'י writes in פרשת נח
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 10:29:23 AM by clear thinker »

Offline zale

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #319 on: June 28, 2015, 11:47:20 AM »
No one was saying this is a positive development. What we were saying is that a. The SC ruling is nothing new, it's a symptom of society as a whole and they had no other way to rule and b. This isn't something worthy of us getting riled up over.

The statement that "they had no other way to rule" is patently false. Maybe it would be difficult to rule against it, but they certainly could have ruled that it is the individual states' right to decide on the matter. By ruling in favor of it, they have made it the law of the land. They took marriage, which originates from RELIGION as a union between a male and a female, (a mother and a father that can produce children biologically and naturally), and decided that it should also include male-male and female-female unions. To summarize, five Liberal-thinking judges have changed the definition of marriage forever.

As for your second statement, every Orthodox Jew should be shaken by this ruling. Getting "riled up" won't help you, but you should certainly be steadfastly opposed to this. Based on the teachings in the Torah, including the Talmud and the Medrash, this is not just a Jewish matter but a matter that affects society as a whole. Frankly, I am shocked and dismayed by how many Orthodox Jews have been cooled off to this whole matter by the Liberal bullying machine. Words like "discrimination", "oppression", "haters" and "bigots" have now taken precedence over matters that are איסור דאורייתא.