Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings

[Aj3042]

No one was saying this is a positive development. What we were saying is that a. The SC ruling is nothing new, it's a symptom of society as a whole and they had no other way to rule and b. This isn't something worthy of us getting riled up over.

Also:

I certainly don't remember you putting your position forth as neutrally as you're saying it now.
And besides, if chazal denigrate it so, that's enough reason for me to get riled up. If they got riled up about it then so can I.

[Aj3042]

The statement that "they had no other way to rule" is patently false. Maybe it would be difficult to rule against it, but they certainly could have ruled that it is the individual states' right to decide on the matter. By ruling in favor of it, they have made it the law of the land. They took marriage, which originates from RELIGION as a union between a male and a female, (a mother and a father that can produce children biologically and naturally), and decided that it should also include male-male and female-female unions. To summarize, five Liberal-thinking judges have changed the definition of marriage forever.

As for your second statement, every Orthodox Jew should be shaken by this ruling. Getting "riled up" won't help you, but you should certainly be steadfastly opposed to this. Based on the teachings in the Torah, including the Talmud and the Medrash, this is not just a Jewish matter but a matter that affects society as a whole. Frankly, I am shocked and dismayed by how many Orthodox Jews have been cooled off to this whole matter by the Liberal bullying machine. Words like "discrimination", "oppression", "haters" and "bigots" have now taken precedence over matters that are איסור דאורייתא.

Well said. Given that this issue does not pertain to the Constitution one bit, all they had to do was abstain from a ruling on the matter. As it is not only did they refine marriage but they tyrannically took it out of the hands of the states and the people and made it a federal law.
And yes, less strong minded people actumt do buy into the liberal media lies, even frum Jews.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Is there anyone in this thread that is for the decision based on their religious beliefs?

[Aj3042]

Is there anyone in this thread that is for the decision based on their religious beliefs?

Well the non religious Jews are for it based on their warped ideas in which the whole Torah comes down to one term-"tikkun olam" (translation: radical left wing agenda).

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Well the non religious Jews are for it based on their warped ideas in which the whole Torah comes down to one term-"tikkun olam" (translation: radical left wing agenda).

Thank you for the editorial but that doesn't answer my question. Lets make it easier. Is there anyone in this thread that is for the decision?

[Aj3042]

Thank you for the editorial but that doesn't answer my question. Lets make it easier. Is there anyone in this thread that is for the decision?

Are you not for it?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Are you not for it?

Of course not and what ever gave you that idea. Some of us can see the other side of things without actually being on the other side.

[Aj3042]

Of course not and what ever gave you that idea. Some of us can see the other side of things without actually being on the other side.

And some of us actually state what we believe without beating around the bush and making it sound as if we believe otherwise.
Besides, on this issue there is no other side to a frum Jew. Simple as that.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

And some of us actually state what we believe without beating around the bush and making it sound as if we believe otherwise.

You are confusing religious issues with legal issues. I have yet to hear anyone in this thread that said they are for the decision. If you want to attack someone because they believe the court was within the constitution no matter which they voted that is fine but to say they are for the decision is out right false.

[Aj3042]

You are confusing religious issues with legal issues. I have yet to hear anyone in this thread that said they are for the decision. If you want to attack someone because they believe the court was within the constitution no matter which they voted that is fine but to say they are for the decision is out right false.

There is only one issue here-the legal and religious are one. The concept of marriage is a religious one, and they had no legal imperative to decide the way they did.
Besides, I'm not sure you're right. There's at least one person who made it sound like he does agree with it fully.

[Achas Veachas]

Marriage is not a religious issue in the US, of it were out would only be able to be done by religious officials (the way out is on Israel).

[Aj3042]

Marriage is not a religious issue in the US, of it were out would only be able to be done by religious officials (the way out is on Israel).

The concept of marriage is inherently a religious one. From a secular point of view, all people need to do is live together. Marriage as a commitment between people is a religious idea.

[clear thinker]

Marriage is not a religious issue in the US, of it were out would only be able to be done by religious officials (the way out is on Israel).

Marriage is based on Judeo Christian values.
Which is the way our country/constitution was founded.
Up until the courts decided to politicize it.
FTFM/Y

[Achas Veachas]

The concept of marriage is inherently a religious one. From a secular point of view, all people need to do is live together. Marriage as a commitment between people is a religious idea.

I guess that's why atheists never get married...

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Marriage is based on Judea Christian values.
Which is the way our country/constitution was founded.

Can you please explain what "Judea" in Judea Christian values means? I have the Christian part down.

[clear thinker]

Marriage is based on Judeo Christian values.
Which is the way our country/constitution was founded.
Up until the courts decided to politicize it.
FTFM/Y

Can you please explain what "Judea" in Judea Christian values means? I have the Christian part down.

Better now?

[zale]

I guess that's why atheists never get married...

Why do atheists eat bagels and lox if they are not Jewish? It tastes good, that's why.

Marriage is a religious institution. It also happens to be a very attractive institution to some, as it portrays family, stability and bonding in a way that just being "in a relationship" cannot. If an Atheist envies that and wants in on it, that's fine by me, let them do their own marriage-like thing, but don't try to change the definition of marriage.

[Aj3042]

I guess that's why atheists never get married...

Don't be ridiculous. Saying that marriage is a religious concept doesn't preclude atheists from getting married. There are atheists who celebrate Christmas, light the menorah, and do many "culturally religious" things. The fact that something developed due to religion and morals doesn't mean it won't be performed by atheists once it becomes entrenched in a society. You know that.

Can you please explain what "Judea" in Judea Christian values means? I have the Christian part down.

Well given that many (if not most) Christian values came from Jewish one is think the answer to your question is pretty obvious (though not really relevant to the discussion at hand).

[aygart]

I guess that's why atheists never get married...

It is a holdover from the old religious culture. For non traditional marriage it is also seeking approval.

[clear thinker]

Can you please explain what "Judea" in Judea Christian values means? I have the Christian part down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian