Author Topic: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings  (Read 72124 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #640 on: February 23, 2023, 12:23:47 PM »
So a 17-year-old can join the military (with parental consent) and die for our country but not buy alcohol. Does that seem logical or fair?
FTFY
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #641 on: February 23, 2023, 12:25:24 PM »
Those who made this bill are right wing nutcases. To try and make it criminal for a legal act in another state is all you need to know that is political.
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Offline bochur22

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #642 on: February 23, 2023, 12:25:43 PM »
Worthwhile to read through this to see what they do:
The legislature finds and declares that:
 (b) Gender d.ysphoria among children rarely persists into adulthood, with peer-reviewed research revealing that as many as ninety-eight per cent (98%) of gender d.ysphoric boys and as many as eighty-eight percent (88%) of gender d.ysphoric girls ultimately identify with their biological s.ex after passing through puberty. evidence that children who remain on puberty blockers may never recover lost development and despite known sterility and additional concerns about reduced IQ and future osteoporosis.
(d) Some healthcare providers now routinely administer cross-s.ex hormones to pubescent children notwithstanding scientific evidence that such therapies cause irreversible sterility and likely increase risks of other medical conditions, including cancer, cardiovascular disease, blood clots, osteoporosis, and obesity. reassignment surgeries that permanently mutilate healthy reproductive organs and other body parts.
(f) The world professional association for transgender health, a professional organization that publishes the standards of care for treating gender d.ysphoria, has altogether removed its age recommendations for adolescent sex reassignment surgeries, including but not limited to surgical c.astration, m.astectomies, h.ysterectomies, and genital reconstruction, despite the known harms and experimental nature of performing such surgeries on gender d.ysphoric children.
(g) Recent science suggests that medical interventions like surgeries and cross-s.ex hormones do not significantly improve long-term health outcomes for patients struggling with gender d.ysphoria and that suicide rates, psychiatric morbidities, and mortality rates remain markedly elevated above the background population after inpatient gender reassignment procedures have been performed.
(h) No long-term randomized studies evaluate the efficacy or safety of the use of puberty blockers for the purpose of treating gender d.ysphoria, and no randomized clinical trials have been conducted on the efficacy or safety of the use of cross-s.ex hormones in adults or children for the purpose of treating gender d.ysphoria.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #643 on: February 23, 2023, 12:26:18 PM »
FTFY
You just proved my point. Thank you!!!
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Offline bochur22

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #644 on: February 23, 2023, 12:27:10 PM »
A 5-year-old is a different story.
Please see the quote from the actual bill I just put up to show why they felt they needed to pass this bill

Offline bochur22

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #645 on: February 23, 2023, 12:27:39 PM »
Those who made this bill are right wing nutcases. To try and make it criminal for a legal act in another state is all you need to know that is political.
Fine. It's out of the bill now. Is it not political now?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #646 on: February 23, 2023, 12:31:07 PM »
Worthwhile to read through this to see what they do:
Where are the studies that back up their claims? Without them their claims are worthless.

The other side has respected medical professions and institutions that approve of this treatment.

Now who do you think an unbiased person would believe?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #647 on: February 23, 2023, 12:32:59 PM »
Please see the quote from the actual bill I just put up to show why they felt they needed to pass this bill
They also felt the need to put parents in jail for a legal act in another state. That to me is a nutcase!!!
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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #648 on: February 23, 2023, 12:34:32 PM »
Fine. It's out of the bill now. Is it not political now?
Of course it is political. It shows their mindset when making the bill.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #649 on: February 23, 2023, 12:38:00 PM »
Where are the studies that back up their claims? Without them their claims are worthless.

The other side has respected medical professions and institutions that approve of this treatment.

Now who do you think an unbiased person would believe?
The problem is, we have medical institutions approving of "treatments" that leave children with permanent physical and mental injuries when there are no studies and no evidence that it is helpful.

We know it hurts children, and we have no evidence that it helps children. This is the kind of politics that causes institutions to lose their reputations. Absent strong evidence that it does help, these activities should be banned and anyone conducting them should be prosecuted for child abuse and endangerment.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline dm123

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #650 on: February 23, 2023, 12:38:48 PM »
Worthwhile to read through this to see what they do:
The legislature finds and declares that:
 (b) Gender d.ysphoria among children rarely persists into adulthood, with peer-reviewed research revealing that as many as ninety-eight per cent (98%) of gender d.ysphoric boys and as many as eighty-eight percent (88%) of gender d.ysphoric girls ultimately identify with their biological s.ex after passing through puberty. evidence that children who remain on puberty blockers may never recover lost development and despite known sterility and additional concerns about reduced IQ and future osteoporosis.
(d) Some healthcare providers now routinely administer cross-s.ex hormones to pubescent children notwithstanding scientific evidence that such therapies cause irreversible sterility and likely increase risks of other medical conditions, including cancer, cardiovascular disease, blood clots, osteoporosis, and obesity. reassignment surgeries that permanently mutilate healthy reproductive organs and other body parts.
(f) The world professional association for transgender health, a professional organization that publishes the standards of care for treating gender d.ysphoria, has altogether removed its age recommendations for adolescent sex reassignment surgeries, including but not limited to surgical c.astration, m.astectomies, h.ysterectomies, and genital reconstruction, despite the known harms and experimental nature of performing such surgeries on gender d.ysphoric children.
(g) Recent science suggests that medical interventions like surgeries and cross-s.ex hormones do not significantly improve long-term health outcomes for patients struggling with gender d.ysphoria and that suicide rates, psychiatric morbidities, and mortality rates remain markedly elevated above the background population after inpatient gender reassignment procedures have been performed.
(h) No long-term randomized studies evaluate the efficacy or safety of the use of puberty blockers for the purpose of treating gender d.ysphoria, and no randomized clinical trials have been conducted on the efficacy or safety of the use of cross-s.ex hormones in adults or children for the purpose of treating gender d.ysphoria.

Still waiting to see where they got their research/science/studies. The one study posted that I think you were referencing (while perhaps methodologically flawed) suggested quite the opposite of what the bill is saying.

If you want to say we trust our government and don't need to see the backup then ok, although I'm not sure most would agree to blindly trust the Government.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #651 on: February 23, 2023, 12:39:28 PM »
Of course it is political. It shows their mindset when making the bill.
Bills are passed by politicians, I'm not sure what you expect. The problem is the need for such a bill, and that politics created a situation where we glorify child abuse.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #652 on: February 23, 2023, 12:40:37 PM »
The problem is, we have medical institutions approving of "treatments" that leave children with permanent physical and mental injuries when there are no studies and no evidence that it is helpful.

We know it hurts children, and we have no evidence that it helps children. This is the kind of politics that causes institutions to lose their reputations. Absent strong evidence that it does help, these activities should be banned and anyone conducting them should be prosecuted for child abuse and endangerment.
If you want to make claims then back them up.
Until then any reasonable parent is going to go with respected medical opinion with what is best for their child.
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Offline bochur22

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #653 on: February 23, 2023, 12:44:10 PM »
SECTION 1. That Section 18-1506B, Idaho Code, be, and the same is hereby amended to read as follows:
18-1506B. FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION OF A CHILD -- EXCLUSIONS -- PENALTIES -- DEFINITION. (1) Except as provided in subsection (4)(3) of this section, whoever knowingly authorizes or commits any procedure that circumcises, excises, or infibulates the whole or any part of the -,-, or - of a child shall be guilty of a felony.Female child protection
(2) Except as provided in subsection (4) of this section, whoever knowingly gives permission for, or permits on a child, any act prohibited by sub section (1) of this section shall be guilty of a felony.
(3) Except as provided in subsection (4) of this section, whoever knowingly removes or causes, permits, or facilitates the removal of a child from  this state for the purpose of facilitating any act prohibited by subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of a felony.
Struck from the bill
(2) Except as provided in subsection (4) of this section, any medical practitioner who knowingly engages in any of the following practices upon a child for the purpose of attempting to alter the appearance of or affirm the child's perception of the child's s.ex if that perception is inconsistent  with the child's biological s.ex shall be guilty of a felony: (a) Performing surgeries that sterilize or mutilate, or artificially construct tissue with the appearance of g.enitalia that differs from the
child's biological s.ex, including c.astration, v.asectomy, h.ysterectomy, o.ophorectomy, m.etoidioplasty, o.rchiectomy, p.enectomy, p.halloplasty, c.litoroplasty, v.aginoplasty, v.ulvoplasty, o.variectomy, or
reconstruction of the fixed part of the u.rethra with or without m.etoidioplasty, p.halloplasty, s.crotoplasty, or the implantation of e.rection or t.esticular prostheses; (b) Performing a m.astectomy; (c) Administering or supplying the following medications that induce profound morphologic changes in the g.enitals of a child or induce transient or permanent infertility: (i) Puberty-blocking medication to stop or delay normal puberty;(ii) Supraphysiological doses of t.estosterone to a female; or (iii) Supraphysiological doses of e.strogen to a male; or (d) Removing any otherwise healthy or nondiseased body part or tissue.(4) (3) A surgical operation or medical intervention shall not be a violation of this section if the operation or intervention is: (a) Necessary to the health of the person on whom it is performed and is performed by a person licensed in the place of its performance as a medical practitioner, except that a medical intervention that results in
the impairment and mutilation of the reproductive organs and parts of a child is never necessary to the health of the child on whom it is performed if it is for the sole purpose of attempting to alter the appearance of or affirm the child's perception of the child's s.ex if that perception is inconsistent with the child's biological s.ex; or (b) Performed on a person in labor or who has just given birth and is performed for medical purposes connected with that labor or birth by a person licensed in the place it is performed as a medical practitioner, midwife, or person in training to become such a practitioner or midwife. (4) The provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall not apply to a person acting in accordance with the good faith medical decision of a parent or guardian of a child born with a medically verifiable genetic disorder of s.ex development, including: (a) A child with external biological s.ex characteristics that are ambiguous and irresolvable, such as a child born having 46, XX chromosomes  with v.irilization, 46, XY chromosomes with u.ndervirilization, or with both o.varian and t.esticular tissue; (b) When a physician has otherwise diagnosed a disorder of s.exual development in which the physician has determined through genetic testing that the child does not have the normal s.ex chromosome structure, s.ex steroid hormone production, or s.ex steroid hormone action for a male or female; or (c) The treatment of any infection, injury, disease, or disorder that has been caused or exacerbated by the performance of gender transition procedures, whether or not the procedures were performed in accordance with state and federal law. (5) In applying subsection (4)(3)(a) of this section, no account shall be taken of the effect on the person on whom the operation is to be performed or any belief on the part of that person, or any other person, that the operaion is required as a matter of custom or ritual.
(6) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall be guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the state prison for a term of not more
 than life ten (10) years. (7) For the purposes of this section, "child" means any person under eighteen (18) years of age.
(8) For the purposes of this section, "s.ex" means the immutable biological and physiological characteristics, specifically the c.hromosomes and internal and external reproductive anatomy, genetically determined at conception and generally recognizable at birth, that define an individual as male or female.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #654 on: February 23, 2023, 12:46:10 PM »
Bills are passed by politicians, I'm not sure what you expect. The problem is the need for such a bill, and that politics created a situation where we glorify child abuse.
You believe it is glorified child abuse. You might also feel that abortion is murder. You have a right to your opinions.
You don't have a right to force me to follow your opinions.

As a parent with children, I will side with the medical professions I trust and not the government. I am going to bet just about everyone here would do the same. We are not in this situation so we can't imagine what the parents are going through. These parents are no different than the rest of us. They want what is best for their child.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #655 on: February 23, 2023, 12:49:58 PM »
You believe it is glorified child abuse. You might also feel that abortion is murder. You have a right to your opinions.
You don't have a right to force me to follow your opinions.

As a parent with children, I will side with the medical professions I trust and not the government. I am going to bet just about everyone here would do the same. We are not in this situation so we can't imagine what the parents are going through. These parents are no different than the rest of us. They want what is best for their child.
Are you saying mutilating a child (without evidence that it is necessary and/or helpful) is not child abuse?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline bochur22

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #656 on: February 23, 2023, 12:56:13 PM »
You believe it is glorified child abuse. You might also feel that abortion is murder. You have a right to your opinions.
You don't have a right to force me to follow your opinions.

As a parent with children, I will side with the medical professions I trust and not the government. I am going to bet just about everyone here would do the same. We are not in this situation so we can't imagine what the parents are going through. These parents are no different than the rest of us. They want what is best for their child.
I sympathize with the kids. It's a mental issue. The solution isn't to chop up kids.
(and sometimes social contagion, like in the San-Francisco school where 12 out of 23 girls in a class came out as trans in the span of a month)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #657 on: February 23, 2023, 12:58:45 PM »
Are you saying mutilating a child (without evidence that it is necessary and/or helpful) is not child abuse?
1 - False pretense (mutilating)
2 - some respect medical professions/institutions approve of the treatment. They believe it is helpful.

If you have respected studies to back up your claims or the claims the bill makes, then please post them. The only study posted so far came to the conclusion the treatment helps.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #658 on: February 23, 2023, 01:00:56 PM »
The solution isn't to chop up kids.
You are making out these parents to be monsters with comments like this. These shock value comments are 100% meaningless in these conversations. It solves nothing.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #659 on: February 23, 2023, 01:02:34 PM »
1 - False pretense (mutilating)
2 - some respect medical professions/institutions approve of the treatment. They believe it is helpful.

If you have respected studies to back up your claims or the claims the bill makes, then please post them. The only study posted so far came to the conclusion the treatment helps.
How else do you define chopping off a child's body parts?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.