Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings

[CountValentine]

NEWS FLASH!!!
I found a major respected medical profession that is against these treatments, and they will not be performed in their hospitals.
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, oops just another cult. 

[drosenberg88429]

Next topic: What should we have the weather be on March 14th? Everyone gets a vote.

[drosenberg88429]

Cult: noun - A school of thought, movement, following, or ideology I disagree with the validity of.

[CountValentine]

Next topic: What should we have the weather be on March 14th? Everyone gets a vote.

Shouldn't that be "Some nutcase politicians just banned weather". Do you agree?

[drosenberg88429]

Where's @biobook when we need her?

[drosenberg88429]

Shouldn't that be "Some nutcase politicians just banned weather". Do you agree?

Next topic: Debate regarding was the next topic should be turns ugly. Shots fired. NATO leaders and G7 convene emergency conference to discuss next steps.

[CountValentine]

Cult: noun - A school of thought, movement, following, or ideology I disagree with the validity of.

cult
1 - a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object:
2 - a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister:

No need to disagree. I agree with religion but some take it to the "cult" level.

[CountValentine]

Next topic: Debate regarding was the next topic should be turns ugly. Shots fired. NATO leaders and G7 convene emergency conference to discuss next steps.

Serious question if that is possible. If you could only use the info in this thread which side would you want to debate?

[drosenberg88429]

Serious question if that is possible. If you could only use the info in this thread which side would you want to debate?

I don't know. It's a deeply fundamental question regarding the rights of parents to make life altering choices for their children. The overall transgender question is just one manifestation, but it's not really the core question. I do find it ironic that the people who are all pro parental choice now weren't as excited about parental choice regarding their child taking a COVID vaccine, for example. I don't think they have real clarity on this question either. Many seem to support parental choice when they agree with the choices being made. The real question of freedom of speech is how we protect is when we voraciously disagree with what's being said, not when we agree with it. The other freedoms are similar, I believe.

Interestingly enough,a few months ago, there was a long discussion regarding the NYS BOE intervening with the educational system in s certain religious group regarding their curriculum. A lot of these core points were discussed.


I also haven't followed this thread enough and done enough research into the topic to have an intelligent opinion or thought process on the matter.


It's really a cost benefit analysis, of weighing the dangers of doing the surgery against the dangers of not doing it.

[EliJelly]

One side: Here is every major health organization that approves of these treatments.

Other side: It is mutilation.


This is a real a hard one. Which side would you go with? 

I'll take a pretzel over a pair of horns anytime. Thanks for depicting the other side so precisely. 

[notyettaken]

One side: Here is every major health organization that approves of these treatments.

Other side: It is mutilation.


This is a real a hard one. Which side would you go with? 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-13-me-reimer13-story.html

also look up frontal lobotomies and imagine you tried researching them when they first became popular.

medicine is complicated and the (long term) effects are not always known for years (and that's without deliberate cover ups) The bigger and more complex the procedure the more time is needed to fully understand the effects (remember you don't always know what you don't know) Also keep in mind as people get older their priorities change and they may regret their choice with no way to go back and be stuck in a limbo (remember the treatments don't switch the gender all the way) (That's besides kids not being known for making the best choices)

science is about constantly double checking and updating beliefs as new data becomes available. To say that what we think now is FOR SURE correct and make irreversible decisions based on that is the exact opposite of science. A more correct way to think of scientific facts is as "our current best guess based on available information and may change as we learn more"

[Welder]

Just to note, gender-affirming care is an umbrella term which for minors mostly involves counseling, family support, and puberty blockers that are temporary and reversible — to buy them time and avoid anything permanent precisely for some of the concerns raised here.

In rare cases, hormone treatment may be used; surgery is almost never used for minors.

The point is to help these kids have a better quality of life and reduce their rate of suicide which has been alarmingly high.

This issue should be about mental health.

[imayid2]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/detransitioner-chloe-cole-announces-lawsuit-hospitals-pushing-medical-mutilation

https://www.dhillonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Letter-of-Intent-Chloe-Cole.pdf

[zh cohen]

puberty blockers that are temporary and reversible

If you believe this, I can offer you a great deal on a bridge...

[CountValentine]

Ignorance is bliss?
https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-are-puberty-blockers/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

One side: Here is every major health organization that approves of these treatments.

Other side: It is mutilation.


This is a real a hard one. Which side would you go with? 

Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt

[bochur22]

A Guide to Feminizing Hormoneshttps://www.marybridge.org › file_viewer
The changes are caused by the treatment blocking the effect of testosterone in your body. Most of the changes are reversible, which means if you stop taking it, your body will go back to how it was before you started taking the medication. Androgen blockers affect the whole body. You cannot pick the changes you want.
From whitman-walker.org :
Hormone Resource Guide Estrogen & Testosterone Blockers
Are testosterone blockers permanent?
Changes may begin to occur after 1 to 6 months and up to 3 years after beginning to take estrogen and/or testosterone blockers. Some of the changes are permanent and irreversible. The rate at which you experience changes will also depend on your dosage and even method of hormone use.

[bochur22]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html
https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389
ETA: Evidence on the damage done by various puberty blockers:
The Cleveland Clinic lists these as the common puberty blockers:
Lupron: https://www.hormonesmatter.com/lupron-reproductive-injury/#:~:text=%E2%80%9C62.5%25%20of%20%5BLupron%20Depot,About%20Lupron's%20Risks'%20on%20pg.
Supprelin LA: https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Supprelin-LA-histrelin-acetate-2248 Subcutaneous depot implant dosage (Supprelin LA ONLY) ... and its mechanism of action, histrelin may cause infertility in males of reproductive potential.
Trelstar:  https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2018/020715s040,021288s035,022427s015lbl.pdf Females and males of reproductive potential: TRELSTAR may
impair fertility.
Goserelin injection: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0923753419370450
Please note: This is only fertility side effects. Each of these has a long list of other effects.

[bochur22]

Evidence for the statement in the Idaho bill that most gender d.ysphoric individuals eventually resolve the identity crisis and identify with their birth gender is provided on the cleveland clinic website. Here's the study they link to: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18981931/

[bochur22]

surgery is almost never used for minors.

Numbers from Boston Children's: Over the past 3 years, they've done 204 transition surgeries, of which 177 were m.asectomies on trans people: Median age 18, 36% were minors at time of surgeries. They do top surgeries from 15
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9000168/

[Welder]

Numbers from Boston Children's: Over the past 3 years, they've done 204 transition surgeries, of which 177 were m.asectomies on trans people: Median age 18, 36% were minors at time of surgeries. They do top surgeries from 15
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9000168/

I think it's the most extreme option regardless of age, but especially for minors and should be avoided as much as possible.

However in some rare and extreme cases it may be justified (if they're old enough to understand ramifications, if they're suffering so much with dysphoria that they're suicidal, where regular counseling and hormone treatment is not enough.)

But 36% seems way too high to me. My understanding was that the surgery numbers for minors were lower and I'd hope they're lower at other medical centers, will look into it more later.