Author Topic: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings  (Read 47231 times)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #80 on: June 26, 2015, 12:47:28 PM »
Can I get your view on slavery?
Do you know the halachas of slaves? It's a pretty sweet gig honestly. And a pita to own one.
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Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #81 on: June 26, 2015, 12:49:27 PM »
Read what he quoted from you, and know when to admit you are wrong about a point.

Unless you are saying your last point is irrelevant.
Ok you want to get technical? Going back to the pagans we have reason to restart the practice of human sacrifice.The point is that from the advent of religion it was taboo. This country wasn't founded based on Greek mythology but on Christian morals.

Offline wayfe

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #82 on: June 26, 2015, 12:49:49 PM »
It was only ever a matter of time... the legalization of gay marriages couldn't be put off forever.

What people don't understand is that morality isn't rational (something isn't good or bad if it seems right or wrong) and there is no intrinsic reason for morality. Something is good and right because G-d deemed it so, not because something is good G-d says it's right.

So now that it "seems wrong" not to allow same-sex marriage people feel it must be legalized. If you don't believe in the exact word of G-d there is no way to explain to any open minded person that gay marriage is wrong.
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Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2015, 12:51:27 PM »
The fact that the founders were Christian doesn't make this a Christian country. You are quickly forgetting how much Jews enjoyed their stay in Christian Theocracies....
i'm not forgetting that all. This country was founded mostly by religious people who had ingrained in them Christian values-let's not make believe that's not true. And the fact is the US was generally very good to its Jews so i'm not sure of your point about Christian theocracies.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2015, 12:51:52 PM »
Ok you want to get technical? Going back to the pagans we have reason to restart the practice of human sacrifice.The point is that from the advent of religion it was taboo. This country wasn't founded based on Greek mythology but on Christian morals.
You can't admit when you are wrong can you?

I guess you are first proving yourself even more wrong and then changing what you said. Great job  ::)
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Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2015, 12:54:54 PM »
I have to admit assuming anybody arguing for this decision is even half serious I'm quite disgusted. We as Jews believe that God commanded Noach that this is forbidden and that one who engages in this should be put to death. As the very least you should recognize it as a rejection of God's word, even if you feel it's constitutional. Stop being so liberal and open minded and go learn about the 7 mitzvos bnei noach.

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2015, 12:55:07 PM »
Scalia's writing style = gold.

Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2015, 12:57:12 PM »
You can't admit when you are wrong can you?

I guess you are first proving yourself even more wrong and then changing what you said. Great job  ::)
In fact you are wrong. Sexual corruption didn't begin until Noach's time, hundreds of years after the creation of the world and Adam and the beginning of "civilization" as Torah Jews believe.
Regardless you're arguing over fine print instead of the point but you're wrong about the fine print as well. Let's see you answer that.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #88 on: June 26, 2015, 12:57:51 PM »
I have to admit assuming anybody arguing for this decision is even half serious I'm quite disgusted. We as Jews believe that God commanded Noach that this is forbidden and that one who engages in this should be put to death. As the very least you should recognize it as a rejection of God's word, even if you feel it's constitutional. Stop being so liberal and open minded and go learn about the 7 mitzvos bnei noach.
Does anyone in this discussion not believe this?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2015, 12:59:30 PM »
I have to admit assuming anybody arguing for this decision is even half serious I'm quite disgusted. We as Jews believe that God commanded Noach that this is forbidden and that one who engages in this should be put to death. As the very least you should recognize it as a rejection of God's word, even if you feel it's constitutional. Stop being so liberal and open minded and go learn about the 7 mitzvos bnei noach.
do you feel that the court should have ruled based upon God's word or the constitution?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2015, 01:00:39 PM »
do you feel that the court should have ruled based upon God's word or the constitution?
Don't answer that.  :)
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Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2015, 01:01:57 PM »
do you feel that the court should have ruled based upon God's word or the constitution?
They should have ruled based upon the Const following a moral interpretation. I think we both know the Const says nothing about this and for the last 275 years nobody interpreted it this way. It's not like they're ruling from the Bible.

Offline wayfe

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2015, 01:03:22 PM »
Unless the SCOTUS rules that Aj3042 must marry a man I see no reason why the fact that Torah rules differently should have bearing on the SCOTUS's ruling.

Should the SCOTUS rule that belief in one G-D is mandatory? Should they outlaw lobster?
This ruling doesn't only affect the gay population.

May religious people who believes otherwise refuse to offer their services to gay couples?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #93 on: June 26, 2015, 01:04:31 PM »
They should have ruled based upon the Const following a moral interpretation. I think we both know the Const says nothing about this and for the last 275 years nobody interpreted it this way. It's not like they're ruling from the Bible.
Would you be OK with giving them the same rights under the law as married couples but not calling it marriage?
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Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #94 on: June 26, 2015, 01:04:49 PM »
I have to admit assuming anybody arguing for this decision is even half serious I'm quite disgusted. We as Jews believe that God commanded Noach that this is forbidden and that one who engages in this should be put to death. As the very least you should recognize it as a rejection of God's word, even if you feel it's constitutional. Stop being so liberal and open minded and go learn about the 7 mitzvos bnei noach.
Thanks for separating these 2 issue.

I have to 2 problems with today's decision: 1. It goes against my personal moral beliefs, and 2. It goes against my understanding of the Constitution.

The second reason is the more meaningful to this discussion because it's based within the set of laws that govern this country. If there were an amendment to the constitution providing a right to same-sex marriage, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on because my personal moral beliefs have very little to do with how this country is run. So my primary objection is that liberal justices read into the Constitution rights which simply aren't there. You say society has changed? Propose an amendment to the Constitution. Of course it will never be passed/ratified because gay marriage doesn't have that level of support, so essentially, SCOTUS is imposing upon the American People a standard of (or lack of) morality that it doesn't want.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2015, 01:05:02 PM »
i'm not forgetting that all. This country was founded mostly by religious people who had ingrained in them Christian values-let's not make believe that's not true. And the fact is the US was generally very good to its Jews so i'm not sure of your point about Christian theocracies.
As I said, the fact that they were Christian doesn't make this a Christian country. The founders may have been Christian but they had the maturity to realize that not everyone would have the same religious values on them and therefore they specifically did NOT make this a religious country.

Saying that hay marriage should be wrong because the founding fathers personally felt that it was wrong is similar to saying that slavery should be right because the founders personally felt that it was right.

Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2015, 01:05:22 PM »
This ruling doesn't only affect the gay population.

May religious people who believes otherwise refuse to offer their services to gay couples?
-1

Today's decision had nothing to do with that.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2015, 01:06:03 PM »
May religious people who believes otherwise refuse to offer their services to gay couples?
Can a priest refuse to marry them based on religious beliefs?
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Offline wayfe

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2015, 01:07:07 PM »
Can a priest refuse to marry them based on religious beliefs?
Did you see the episode on this on "The Good Wife"?
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Offline Aj3042

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States
« Reply #99 on: June 26, 2015, 01:07:11 PM »
Would you be OK with giving them the same rights under the law as married couples but not calling it marriage?
Which "rights" don't they have? They're free to do as they please, just like the guy who marries his pet (who can do what he wants but technically he's not married).
They don't want rights-they want to redefine and corrupt traditional morals.