So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem

[grodnoking]

Anytime you are speaking about the defense of a murder and start with a BUT, you should probably stop. It's not going to go well.

No, the problem here is that a guy murdered someone. Another problem is that people are defending said murderer. No one was comparing murders.
So you believe that participating in a gay pride parade is WORSE than murder. I'm hoping that seeing your position spelled out a bit clearer will help you realize that you are wrong morally, halachically and every otherly you can think of.

I might have thought that until a guy went and murdered someone at a parade, and then someone else burned a child. So yes, I believe there are far worse ways.
 
I can't speak for others, but I do give a damn. that doesn't mean we condone murdering or harming anyone responsible for that. And why do you think this pain is any more "abnormal" than any other pain, like say, murder, or defending murder, or casting aspersions on the giving a damn of other Jews about matters of holiness and chillul Hashem?

Liberal can have many definitions, but the way most people here would use the term, almost all the people who are so angry on this forum are certainly NOT liberal, and have made that clear on many threads.

For instance?

This thread is about a stabbing of a human being by a self-identified orthodox Jew. You have other instances about people doing things to be better Jews that you feel deserve recognition? Start a thread which highlights their actions, we'd love to hear about them.

Ma inyan shmita etzel har Sinai?
No, he didn't ask. He accused. Very big difference. Later on, someone does ask, and I thought it was fine, but he later clarifies his polite question as a holier-than-though accusation.

Because he accused, and he did it in someone's TR. Had he asked politely, he probably would have been directed to ask the same question in the halacha thread, or to start a new thread. It is a discussion many would like to have on this forum. But don't clog up someone else's thread with your disparaging comments about them. It is just plain rude.

To embarrass people publicly by accusing them of breaking halacha? Indeed! Since when?!
Precisely. Everyone is responsible to question and correct themselves. Rebuking others comes with many, many clauses. Most notably, knowing your words will be received in the intended manner, which clearly was NOT the case in this instance.
That doesn't even make sense.
The murder you are not defending, but are writing a heck of a lot to say what, exactly?
Again, being against a murder does not equal condoning the parade.
Yes. But maybe also ask yourself why you are crying so bitterly about THIS terrible thing, and not the other terrible things being done by those much closer to us.
 You made up your own answer to the question that wasn't based on anything, so I guess the reasoning can be made up too.
Your mind reading is incredible. Too bad it is so horribly off base, and flies in the face of pretty much everyone's comment history on this forum.
You might want to check again if people are mocking those actions, or if they are extremely frustrated as to HOW those actions are often done and how they are presented publicly.
Do you not see the hypocrisy here? We're speaking about a murder, and you keep trying to bring in "the bigger picture" of the chilul Hashem the parade is, and how indefensibly awful the acts of these Jews are, but then criticize people for not looking at the bigger picture and "criticizing the Jew." Why is the murderer less deserving of critique parade goers?

Perhaps say a kapital Tehillim.

Indeed, one need not pick on spelling or grammar to find this post is not valuable, the ideas presented are horrific in their own right.
What is offensive are your outrageous moral equivalencies, and trying to downplay horror at a murder and call it "being liberal."

Right back at ya

Wow

[Achas Veachas]

Yes, I know what I said earlier. But as it wasn't AJ or Doodle....

Are you so sure?

[Yehuda57]

Are you so sure?

I don't believe it is a first time poster, but I don't get the feeling it is them.

Not harsh enough for doodle, not stupid enough for aj (ok, it's just not written in aj style).

[elit]

Anytime you are speaking about the defense of a murder and start with a BUT, you should probably stop. It's not going to go well.

No, the problem here is that a guy murdered someone. Another problem is that people are defending said murderer. No one was comparing murders.
So you believe that participating in a gay pride parade is WORSE than murder. I'm hoping that seeing your position spelled out a bit clearer will help you realize that you are wrong morally, halachically and every otherly you can think of.

I might have thought that until a guy went and murdered someone at a parade, and then someone else burned a child. So yes, I believe there are far worse ways.
 
I can't speak for others, but I do give a damn. that doesn't mean we condone murdering or harming anyone responsible for that. And why do you think this pain is any more "abnormal" than any other pain, like say, murder, or defending murder, or casting aspersions on the giving a damn of other Jews about matters of holiness and chillul Hashem?

Liberal can have many definitions, but the way most people here would use the term, almost all the people who are so angry on this forum are certainly NOT liberal, and have made that clear on many threads.

For instance?

This thread is about a stabbing of a human being by a self-identified orthodox Jew. You have other instances about people doing things to be better Jews that you feel deserve recognition? Start a thread which highlights their actions, we'd love to hear about them.

Ma inyan shmita etzel har Sinai?
No, he didn't ask. He accused. Very big difference. Later on, someone does ask, and I thought it was fine, but he later clarifies his polite question as a holier-than-though accusation.

Because he accused, and he did it in someone's TR. Had he asked politely, he probably would have been directed to ask the same question in the halacha thread, or to start a new thread. It is a discussion many would like to have on this forum. But don't clog up someone else's thread with your disparaging comments about them. It is just plain rude.

To embarrass people publicly by accusing them of breaking halacha? Indeed! Since when?!
Precisely. Everyone is responsible to question and correct themselves. Rebuking others comes with many, many clauses. Most notably, knowing your words will be received in the intended manner, which clearly was NOT the case in this instance.
That doesn't even make sense.
The murder you are not defending, but are writing a heck of a lot to say what, exactly?
Again, being against a murder does not equal condoning the parade.
Yes. But maybe also ask yourself why you are crying so bitterly about THIS terrible thing, and not the other terrible things being done by those much closer to us.
 You made up your own answer to the question that wasn't based on anything, so I guess the reasoning can be made up too.
Your mind reading is incredible. Too bad it is so horribly off base, and flies in the face of pretty much everyone's comment history on this forum.
You might want to check again if people are mocking those actions, or if they are extremely frustrated as to HOW those actions are often done and how they are presented publicly.
Do you not see the hypocrisy here? We're speaking about a murder, and you keep trying to bring in "the bigger picture" of the chilul Hashem the parade is, and how indefensibly awful the acts of these Jews are, but then criticize people for not looking at the bigger picture and "criticizing the Jew." Why is the murderer less deserving of critique parade goers?

Perhaps say a kapital Tehillim.

Indeed, one need not pick on spelling or grammar to find this post is not valuable, the ideas presented are horrific in their own right.
What is offensive are your outrageous moral equivalencies, and trying to downplay horror at a murder and call it "being liberal."

Right back at ya

Wow beautifully written.  Instant Classic

[Aj3042]

I don't believe it is a first time poster, but I don't get the feeling it is them.

Not harsh enough for doodle, not stupid enough for aj (ok, it's just not written in aj style).

LOL right you are. He just doesn't have my inimitable style.

[Achas Veachas]

I don't believe it is a first time poster, but I don't get the feeling it is them.

Not harsh enough for doodle, not stupid enough for aj (ok, it's just not written in aj style).

Yeah you're right, aj and doodle at least put their names behind their opinions, this guy is stam a coward.

[Aj3042]

Yeah you're right, aj and doodle at least put their names behind their opinions, this guy is stam a coward.

A coward? Don't be ridiculous. With the kind of lynching he's seen at times it was a smart move on his part to do what he did. It says a lot about the nature of a debate when one side has to hide behind a mask in fear.

[gozalim]

A coward? Don't be ridiculous. With the kind of lynching he's seen at times it was a smart move on his part to do what he did. It says a lot about the nature of a debate when one side has to hide behind a mask in fear.

so the misspelling, (mysteriously consistent), was a guise?   

[Aj3042]

so the misspelling, (mysteriously consistent), was a guise?

Oh no you've outed me! In fact I took my long schmooze and I put it through a special computer program that works through a unique algorithm I invented that converts my words into a new kind of dialect, spelling and grammar and all. Amazing no?
I hope that your smart enough to realize that others are smart enough not to be so transparent about making new names. I hope.

[elit]

nor will I condemn the actions of the deranged stabber.

Did you really mean to say condemn?  If yes that's way beyond the spectrum of acceptable extreme views.  In my opinion that shouldn't be allowed on ddf.

[Aj3042]

Did you really mean to say condemn?  If yes that's way beyond the spectrum of acceptable extreme views.  In my opinion that shouldn't be allowed on ddf.

Pasting snippets of text without appropriate context and then attacking them is even more extreme. In my opinion that shouldn't be allowed on ddf, or anywhere else, for that matter.

Mivazeh taldmid chacham brabim is part of religion

Right back at you. What you say here is outrageous. It's also a snippet of text that I cut and pasted out of context and it's missing some words. But then again so is mine.

[Aaaron]

Pasting snippets of text without appropriate context and then attacking them is even more extreme. In my opinion that shouldn't be allowed on ddf, or anywhere else, for that matter.

Nice deflection. 

[elit]

Pasting snippets of text without appropriate context and then attacking them is even more extreme. In my opinion that shouldn't be allowed on ddf, or anywhere else, for that matter.

There was no appropriate context for saying you don't condemn the murder.  I am generally against banning but I am really shocked your still around.

[gavhaller]

There was no appropriate context for saying you don't condemn the murder.  I am generally against banning but WE REALLY ARE shocked your still around.

FTFY.

Furthermore- I thought you said you were leaving aj. What gives?

[grodnoking]

FTFY.

Furthermore- I thought you said you were leaving aj. What gives?

You cant just quit. Its like smoking.

[Aaaron]

FTFY.

Furthermore- I thought you said you were leaving aj. What gives?

I'm still waiting for him to provide me with a source that all Chillul HaShem is strictly around other Jews.  Seems like he drops out of conversations rather than admitting he may be wrong.

[Aj3042]

There was no appropriate context for saying you don't condemn the murder.  I am generally against banning but I am really shocked your still around.

In fact nowhere did I say "I will not condemn the murder". What I did say was "I will not condemn the stabber". Your attacks notwithstanding, those 2 are quite different. For those that can follow conversations, this thread began with condemnation of the stabber, to which I said he's no more worthy of condemnation than the protestors were, so equally negative attention and nasty titles should have been given to both. There's no question that the outcome of his actions (the death of that girl) were unfortunate, and in fact I said specifically that. So what you're doing is grossly misquoting what I said and making it sound a whole lot worse than it was. If you were in front of a judge and said something like that he'd throw you right out. It's a misrepresentation, plain and simple. And coming from someone who claims that mivazeh talmid chacham brabim is part of religion, you can understand what misrepresentation can do to a comment.
Either way you can take it or leave it. I'm wasting too much time on this thread defending myself for no good reason. As I've mentioned I'd rather not be dragged into this stuff either. So I'm out now (though to be honest not sure got how long) but for now I won't respond to any of your misrepresentations on this thread.

[gavhaller]

There's no question that the outcome of his actions (the death of that girl) were unfortunate.

Is that all it was?

[Aj3042]

As a concluding remark it seems to me that most people here have never come face to face with a strong minded person who won't back down even when he's in the minority. I'm assuming that's why people resort to name calling, misrepresentations, and other assorted tactics. B"h I've been taught (including by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys) to believe in something and hold my own unless the facts contradict me.

[Achas Veachas]

In fact nowhere did I say "I will not condemn the murder". What I did say was "I will not condemn the stabber". Your attacks notwithstanding, those 2 are quite different. For those that can follow conversations, this thread began with condemnation of the stabber, to which I said he's no more worthy of condemnation than the protestors were, so equally negative attention and nasty titles should have been given to both. There's no question that the outcome of his actions (the death of that girl) were unfortunate, and in fact I said specifically that. So what you're doing is grossly misquoting what I said and making it sound a whole lot worse than it was. If you were in front of a judge and said something like that he'd throw you right out. It's a misrepresentation, plain and simple. And coming from someone who claims that mivazeh talmid chacham brabim is part of religion, you can understand what misrepresentation can do to a comment.
Either way you can take it or leave it. I'm wasting too much time on this thread defending myself for no good reason. As I've mentioned I'd rather not be dragged into this stuff either. So I'm out now (though to be honest not sure got how long) but for now I won't respond to any of your misrepresentations on this thread.

The pretzels you twist yourself into... I'm speechless.... If he stabbed with the intent to murder then you can't separate his actions from their intended consequences.