Author Topic: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem  (Read 32927 times)

Offline gavhaller

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #240 on: August 04, 2015, 07:43:05 PM »
As a concluding remark it seems to me that most people here have never come face to face with a strong minded person who won't back down even when he's in the minority. I'm assuming that's why people resort to name calling, misrepresentations, and other assorted tactics. B"h I've been taught (including by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys) to believe in something and hold my own unless the facts contradict me.

At the end of the day- you can believe in whatever you want.
Murder is Murder. Zeh hu.

You have yet (from what I've seen posted) to admit that, without mixing you callous beliefs about one example worse than the other.

Nice chatting with you. I hope these lawyers also know when to back out and 'cut a deal' when they know that they will lose.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #241 on: August 04, 2015, 07:43:40 PM »
As a concluding remark it seems to me that most people here have never come face to face with a strong minded person who won't back down even when he's in the minority. I'm assuming that's why people resort to name calling, misrepresentations, and other assorted tactics. B"h I've been taught (including by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys) to believe in something and hold my own unless the facts contradict me.

And if they do, to ignore them...
FTFY

Offline elit

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #242 on: August 04, 2015, 07:45:37 PM »
In fact nowhere did I say "I will not condemn the murder". What I did say was "I will not condemn the stabber". Your attacks notwithstanding, those 2 are quite different. For those that can follow conversations, this thread began with condemnation of the stabber, to which I said he's no more worthy of condemnation than the protestors were, so equally negative attention and nasty titles should have been given to both. There's no question that the outcome of his actions (the death of that girl) were unfortunate, and in fact I said specifically that. So what you're doing is grossly misquoting what I said and making it sound a whole lot worse than it was. If you were in front of a judge and said something like that he'd throw you right out. It's a misrepresentation, plain and simple. And coming from someone who claims that mivazeh talmid chacham brabim is part of religion, you can understand what misrepresentation can do to a comment.
Either way you can take it or leave it. I'm wasting too much time on this thread defending myself for no good reason. As I've mentioned I'd rather not be dragged into this stuff either. So I'm out now (though to be honest not sure got how long) but for now I won't respond to any of your misrepresentations on this thread.
that was the most ridiculing contortion of one's own words I've ever seen but I certainly will not get dragged into arguing with you but just want to say one thing.
If you are always in fights with the vast vast majority of those around you it may pay to stop and introspect on why that is. Especially when the majority who disagree are from a very broad spectrum of religious and political backgrounds
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 07:51:17 PM by elit »

Offline Aaaron

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #243 on: August 04, 2015, 07:46:40 PM »
As a concluding remark it seems to me that most people here have never come face to face with a strong minded person who won't back down even when he's in the minority. I'm assuming that's why people resort to name calling, misrepresentations, and other assorted tactics. B"h I've been taught (including by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys) to believe in something and hold my own unless the facts contradict me.

Every 1k/hour attorney I've been fortunate enough to work with, be a mentee of, etc. has been able to admit when they were wrong.  It's not about backing down or changing your opinion. 

Open Gemara at the end of perek Ben sorer umoreh in Sanhedrin-the ikar din of chillul hashem is only in front of 10 Jews. This has been discussed at length already. None of the sources you quoted have anything to do with the particular point we're discussing of Jews vs non Jews.
Time for me to check out (for real this time) have a good shabbos.
The Rambam (in Sefer HaMitzvos) lists three types of Chillul Hashem.  The first is refusing to martyr yourself when you're supposed to.  THAT is the one (of three) being discussed in Sanhedrin at the end of Ben Sorer.

The third one is the one we've been referring to; the one referenced in Yoma, and there is no indication that it only applies in front of Yidden.  So again I ask... source?

ETA:  Have a great shabbos!

Still waiting on that source...

Online aygart

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #244 on: August 04, 2015, 08:19:13 PM »
As a concluding remark it seems to me that most people here have never come face to face with a strong minded person who won't back down even when he's in the minority. I'm assuming that's why people resort to name calling, misrepresentations, and other assorted tactics. B"h I've been taught (including by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys) to believe in something and hold my own unless the facts contradict me.
and if the facts do contradict you then just ignore the posts where that was pointed out. That you are equating supporting znus with committing murder is beyond ridiculous and is not supported by any realistic reading of the Torah.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Freddie

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #245 on: August 04, 2015, 08:42:24 PM »
Westboro Baptist Church

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #246 on: August 04, 2015, 08:48:36 PM »
Westboro Baptist Church
Though by the spelling of the posters here, their philosophy would be more in line with "G-d hates figs" than the wbc

Offline doodle

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #247 on: August 04, 2015, 09:56:38 PM »
There was no appropriate context for saying you don't condemn the murder.  I am generally against banning but I am really shocked your still around.
after YOU went on and on against Chabad , you have some Chutzpah to question how others are still around!
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #248 on: August 04, 2015, 10:01:33 PM »
after YOU went on and on against Chabad , you have some Chutzpah to question how others are still around!
?!
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline elit

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #249 on: August 04, 2015, 10:02:25 PM »
after YOU went on and on against Chabad , you have some Chutzpah to question how others are still around!
???

Offline doodle

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #250 on: August 04, 2015, 10:05:42 PM »
???
read the chabad messianic thread, if its still around...
from Feb 2015
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 10:22:29 PM by doodle »
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Offline elit

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #251 on: August 04, 2015, 10:07:33 PM »
read the chabad messianic thread, if its still around...
from Feb 12 . 2015
I figured that's what got were referring to but please feel free to go ahead and read it again I never went on and on against chabad

Offline elit

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #252 on: August 04, 2015, 10:09:33 PM »
read the chabad messianic thread, if its still around...
from Feb 12 . 2015
Clearly you have no idea how to distinguish between healthy discussions of opposing view points and bizarre extreme ones

Offline doodle

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #253 on: August 04, 2015, 10:15:05 PM »
Clearly you have no idea how to distinguish between healthy discussions of opposing view points and bizarre extreme ones
so opposing the belief system of a large group of Yisroel is a healthy discussion,
but opposing gay behaviors is bizarre ...
I used to read your posts and admire your thoughts..
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #254 on: August 04, 2015, 10:29:46 PM »
so opposing the belief system of a large group of Yisroel is a healthy discussion,
but opposing gay behaviors is bizarre ...
I used to read your posts and admire your thoughts..
Who said opposing gay behaviour is bizarre? Opposing the condemnation of a murderer and claiming that it's based on Torah is what's bizarre here...

Offline eugene

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #255 on: August 04, 2015, 10:33:50 PM »
As a concluding remark it seems to me that most people here have never come face to face with a strong minded person who won't back down even when he's in the minority. I'm assuming that's why people resort to name calling, misrepresentations, and other assorted tactics. B"h I've been taught (including by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys) to believe in something and hold my own unless the facts contradict me.

A couple of real quick questions:

"I've been taught... by some very frum yet very successful 1k-an-hour attorneys" Very interesting. So these very frum lawyers are
leaching 1000 dollars an hour for their services. Wow.  Can you fill me in a little bit about their frumkeit levels?

Did the very frum lawyers charge you a grand an hour to teach you to hold your own unless contradicted by others?

Would the very frum lawyers be OK with you getting into an argument here pro bono?

If they were frum but not very frum would you have allowed yourself to be tutored by them?

And most importantly, would they consider defending the stabber, at least in theory? Or,  would they
consider the slayed to have sinned just like the stabber and therefore keep away? What if they were offered 2k an
hour?
If pro is opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress?

Offline doodle

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #256 on: August 04, 2015, 10:41:30 PM »
I think so, but there was a practical mutiny here when Chaikel merely suspended another member for a week for what he felt crossed the line.
the saddest day in ddf history, when cbc left. this place became a cemetery.
Thank You Aj3042 for saying it like it is !
 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 10:44:44 PM by doodle »
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Offline Dan

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #257 on: August 04, 2015, 10:46:05 PM »
the saddest day in ddf history, when cbc left. this place became a cemetery.
Thank You Aj3042 for saying it like it is !
even if you disagree with him, its good to hear the fearless truth 

{{Citation needed}}

Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline doodle

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #258 on: August 04, 2015, 11:01:40 PM »
I meant the arguing , the intensity of it all ..
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Offline Dan

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Re: So Called Orthodox Jew Stabs 6 at parade in Jerusalem
« Reply #259 on: August 04, 2015, 11:02:53 PM »
i meant the arguing , the intensity of it all ..
Get a life troll.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.