Jimmy Carter announces he has cancer

[yuneeq]

So if Carter was a Jew he would not be anti-Semite just a Jew hater? So we can leave anti-Semite out of the argument and just focus if someone hates Jews or not? Do I have that right?

He's an antisemite plain and simple.
If he was Jewish I don't think its possible to call him an anti-Semite.
But the labels don't really matter as IMO any Jew hater deserves the same destiny.

[clear thinker]

Seems like a cop-out.  So if a goy says what a Satmar guy says about Israel it's anti-semitism, but for the Satmar guy it's not?

It's seems silly to lump together anti-Israel statements with anti-semitism.
Surely many people harbor both. But one doesn't have to equal the other. The Israeli government is not immune from making mistakes.

To your point a black guy is allowed to calla fellow black guy a n**** but you better not dare...
See my point?

[yuneeq]

For at least a millennium the Jews lived under relative peace in Muslim empires while they lived mostly in fear and persecution in Christian countries. Any theories as to why they changed other than the sharp increase in immigration to Israel from 1900 and on?

Relatively peaceful?
So being a less active racist than their Christian brethren cleanses the Muslims from the atrocities they committed over the past millennium.

Holy cow.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

If he was Jewish I don't think its possible to call him an anti-Semite.
But the labels don't really matter as IMO any Jew hater deserves the same destiny.

I think some of the problems here are the labels we use as they have different meanings to some. Now we can focus if Carter or anyone Jewish or not hates Jews. Carter takes the Palestinians side of the Israel/Palestine conflict. This makes him anti-Israel with equals Jew hater. Does this make those who take Israel's side anti-Palestinian and Palestinian haters?

[clear thinker]

Does criticizing (mildly or strongly) the Israeli government make you anti-israel?

If being anti-Israel is anti-semitic does that make Satmar anti-semitic?

There's a known story by the Satmar Rabbi zatzal. (Rabbi joel)
One of the politicians came to him for a "Bracha" and endorsement (I forget who it was) and he was warned that he shouldn't tell the rabbi that he's a supporter of israel, as not to loose the rabbi's support.
He failed and he told the rabbi that he's a strong israeli supporter and the rabbi endorsed him.
When he left the "gabbaim" asked the rabbi how come he supports someone who supports zionism?
The rabbi then tought us a strong and important lesson.
By a non jew loving jews materializes itself in loving israel if he doesn't love israel he's likely a anti semite.

[yuneeq]

I think some of the problems here are the labels we use as they have different meanings to some. Now we can focus if Carter or anyone Jewish or not hates Jews. Carter takes the Palestinians side of the Israel/Palestine conflict. This makes him anti-Israel with equals Jew hater. Does this make those who take Israel's side anti-Palestinian and Palestinian haters?

That makes us acting in defense.
Israel tried many unilateral peaceful solutions that the Palestinians tore apart or spat in our face.
If we didn't try making peace then there would be no reason to hate. 

And still, I only hate those that want to harm me.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

That makes us acting in defense.
Israel tried many unilateral peaceful solutions that the Palestinians tore apart or spat in our face.
If we didn't try making peace then there would be no reason to hate. 

And still, I only hate those that want to harm me.

Fair enough. Do you truly believe Carter wants to hurt you and other Jews? Is it possible he is just so wrong on this issue like he was on the economy when he was president and his intent is not hurt anyone?

[Aj3042]

Wow. Just wow.
From all my interactions with all kinds of smart and accomplished frum Jews across the political spectrum I have yet to remember coming across one intelligent person who's bought into this propaganda of Jew haters "only being anti israel". I knew non Jews and nonrehilous Jews bought into this but I really thought frum Jews were smarter than that.
ETA-I still think they are. I'm not sure what kind of people hang out here on DDF but they're obviously way more liberal (and apparently less intelligent) than the average frum guy...

[Dan]

Relatively peaceful?
So being a less active racist than their Christian brethren cleanses the Muslims from the atrocities they committed over the past millennium.

Holy cow.

Are you seriously comparing the atrocities committed in Europe from 945-1945 to the ones in the middle east?

[Dan]

A Jew criticizing another Jew can hardly be called antisemitism.
Some of the Jews worst enemies were Jews themselves, but they can only labelled self-haters, just like a black won't be called racist for calling another black the n*** word.

They're not called racist because the word is meaningless among themselves. Not unlike if I called my friend a k*ke. Nothing to do with self-hating at all.

[Dan]

Wow. Just wow.
From all my interactions with all kinds of smart and accomplished frum Jews across the political spectrum I have yet to remember coming across one intelligent person who's bought into this propaganda of Jew haters "only being anti israel". I knew non Jews and nonrehilous Jews bought into this but I really thought frum Jews were smarter than that.
ETA-I still think they are. I'm not sure what kind of people hang out here on DDF but they're obviously way more liberal than the average guy...

A few questions. I'm open minded here.
I do think most, though not all, anti-Israel/BDS stuff is indeed anti-semitic.  The Matisyahu story today highlights that.  And most Muslims today are surely anti-semitic, though that's mostly attributable to brainwashing.

But...

Does criticizing (mildly or strongly) the Israeli government make you anti-israel?

If being anti-Israel is anti-semitic does that make Satmar anti-semitic?

For at least a millennium the Jews lived under relative peace in Muslim empires while they lived mostly in fear and persecution in Christian countries. Any theories as to why they changed other than the sharp increase in immigration to Israel from 1900 and on?

I asked some pretty straightforward questions.
Stop the rhetoric and answer them. That's how normal people debate.

[Dan]

Let's make this really simple.
Are you guys actually saying that my strongly disagreeing with some Israeli government actions makes me "self-hating/anti-semitic?"

So we can disagree with any government on Earth, but Israel is infallible. Cool story folks.

And yes. I'm not arguing that a large percentage of anti-Israel people are anti-semitic. As are possibly all BDSers. But to equate anti-Israel with anti-semitic in all situations is insanity.

[yuneeq]

Are you seriously comparing the atrocities committed in Europe from 945-1945 to the ones in the middle east?

No I didn't. You put that in my mouth.

Calling Muslims peaceful towards Jews because they didn't commit atrocities to same level of the Europeans is just idiotic.

[yuneeq]

I asked some pretty straightforward questions.
Stop the rhetoric and answer them. That's how normal people debate.

Start with answering questions with no straw men involved.
That helps any debate.

[Dan]

Peaceful is relative, don't see why that's idiotic.
It's clearly escalated over the last century.

[zale]

Let's make this really simple.
Are you guys actually saying that my strongly disagreeing with some Israeli government actions makes me "self-hating/anti-semitic?"

No, obviously. The Israeli government is as corrupt as any other. Heck, look at Olmert. The man got off easy with eight months in prison.

[yuneeq]

Let's make this really simple.
Are you guys actually saying that my strongly disagreeing with some Israeli government actions makes me "self-hating/anti-semitic?"

So we can disagree with any government on Earth, but Israel is infallible. Cool story folks.

And yes. I'm not arguing that a large percentage of anti-Israel people are anti-semitic. As are possibly all BDSers. But to equate anti-Israel with anti-semitic in all situations is insanity.

The difference is that when you disagree with Israeli policy, its that you believe your opinions will be better for the Israeli people. Meanwhile, those from the BDS crowd are disagreeing with the government because they're not doing enough harm to the Israeli people.

[yuneeq]

Peaceful is relative, don't see why that's idiotic.
It's clearly escalated over the last century.

Jews were always second class citizens in Arab countries.
There were pogroms, murders and tortures that were solely because they were Jewish.
Point being that the Arabs have a long history of being antisemitic, the fact that Israel came into existence only flared it up, it didn't start the hatred from scratch.

[zale]

Jews were always second class citizens in Arab countries.
There were pogroms, murders and tortures that were solely because they were Jewish.
Point being that the Arabs have a long history of being antisemitic, the fact that Israel came into existence only flared it up, it didn't start the hatred from scratch.

Can't one argue that today's Islamic extremism and Jihad against the West is because of the founding of Israel?

[yuneeq]

Fair enough. Do you truly believe Carter wants to hurt you and other Jews? Is it possible he is just so wrong on this issue like he was on the economy when he was president and his intent is not hurt anyone?

I honesty can't answer that based on what I know about him, which isn't enough to determine if I hate him

From what I do know and what I hear from others that have been around longer than me, is that he's in a league of his own, and is probably the only president that can be seriously accused of being antisemitic.